Spirituality may be hardwired into human biology. That’s the research behind this week’s conversation… scientists put people in MRI machines and played back recordings of their own spiritual experiences. A region tied to stress and the sense of self went quiet. And the researcher behind it, Dr. Lisa Miller, has spent two decades showing that people with strong spiritual lives are markedly more resilient to depression and addiction.

So after years of dancing around the topic (with a certified spiritual director in the room), Bryan, Spencer, and Wayne finally go there. Where is the line between spirituality and religion? Spencer’s answer takes one word. Wayne’s runs through Enneagram training, monkey mind, the 110 tabs open in every head, and a practice as simple as following the next breath. The conversation covers religion as the shell an egg needs before it hatches, why even the people the world writes off still need to be fed, and what it might look like to teach inner life the way schools teach math.

If the word spirituality makes you flinch, this episode is for you.

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