Fifteen years after The Lean Startup, Eric Ries is watching a new generation of founders rediscover and stress-test the core ideas behind build-measure-learn.

AI has made the build step radically faster. Code that used to take weeks can now appear in minutes. But Eric’s warning is sharp: when building gets cheaper, measurement and learning become the new bottlenecks. Teams that use AI to close the learning loop are flying. Teams that use AI to outsource their judgment are building what he calls “slop factories.”

In this episode, Wade and Eric cover:

• Why the Lean Startup feels more relevant, not less, in the AI era
• The difference between vibe coding and engineering
• Why LLMs can become dopamine machines that make you feel more productive than you are
• How to use AI to learn instead of outsourcing your learning to the machine
• Why token maxing is the wrong metric — and validated learning is still the right one
• How AI may collapse old functional silos between product, design, engineering, and marketing
• Why most founders have never read their corporate charter — and why that matters
• Eric’s new book Incorruptible, and how governance becomes the art of organizational soul craft
• The Costco hot dog story, Cloudflare’s free encryption decision, and why “harder is easier”

Check out Eric’s brand new book Incorruptible: https://incorruptible.co