Complicating The Narrative
Complicating The Narrative
Podcast Description
In this podcast, hosted by Dr. Salma Abdalla—Assistant Professor and Director of the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis—we provide rigorous, evidence-based analysis of complex population health challenges. In a time of social, economic, and political upheaval—marked by eroding public trust, polarized narratives, and growing uncertainty—this podcast aims to challenge oversimplified narratives about the forces that shape the health of populations.
Salma engages guests from across disciplines in rigorous, evidence-based conversations that challenge conventional wisdom. The conversations sometimes pose uncomfortable questions, seek nuanced perspectives, and question not just what we think, but how we arrive at our conclusions in public health.
We explore the inherent complexities, real-world tradeoffs, and unintended consequences of public health interventions. Our goal is to empower listeners with nuanced understanding, helping them navigate these multifaceted issues in an informed and balanced way.
The podcast is supported by the Washington University School of Public Health — https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu — and the Frick Initiative.
Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla
Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares
Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/
Contact us at: [email protected]
Podcast Insights
Content Themes
The podcast addresses intricate topics in public health such as the implications of social determinants on health outcomes, the effects of public policy on population health, and innovative research in epidemiology, with specific episodes like 'Rethinking Public Health with Dean Sandro Galea' exploring the concept of consequential epidemiology and its relevance to real-world challenges.
In this podcast, hosted by Dr. Salma Abdalla—Assistant Professor and Director of the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis—we provide rigorous, evidence-based analysis of complex population health challenges. In a time of social, economic, and political upheaval—marked by eroding public trust, polarized narratives, and growing uncertainty—this podcast aims to challenge oversimplified narratives about the forces that shape the health of populations.
Salma engages guests from across disciplines in rigorous, evidence-based conversations that challenge conventional wisdom. The conversations sometimes pose uncomfortable questions, seek nuanced perspectives, and question not just what we think, but how we arrive at our conclusions in public health.
We explore the inherent complexities, real-world tradeoffs, and unintended consequences of public health interventions. Our goal is to empower listeners with nuanced understanding, helping them navigate these multifaceted issues in an informed and balanced way.
The podcast is supported by the Washington University School of Public Health — https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu — and the Frick Initiative.
Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla
Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares
Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/
Contact us at: [email protected]
How much of what you believe about health comes from your political identity and who you are listening to?
Matt Motta joins Salma to explore how political identity shapes what people believe about health. They start by discussing vaccines, revisiting the story of how a Lyme disease vaccine for humans failed to be socially accepted after it launched in 1998, and then turn to why vaccines have become a way to signal where you stand rather than a technical question. They cover state vaccine legislation, the stigmatization of mRNA vaccines after the COVID-19 pandemic, and where healthy scrutiny of new vaccines ends and stigma begins.
They then shift the conversation to discuss effective communication strategies, with Matt describing his field experiments with social media creators, discussing his current research on gambling ads and reflecting on what it has been like to communicate his own research to the public about politically contested topics.
This episode invites you to pause and reflect on the effects of the advertisements and information you come across before making your next health decisions.
About the guest
Matthew Motta is an Associate Professor of Health Law, Policy, & Management at Boston University’s School of Public Health. He is also Affiliated Faculty with Harvard’s TH Chan School of Public Health and a Research Fellow at the Policy Lab at Brown University. His research has two main foci around (i) the social and political determinants of anti-science attitudes and (ii) the design of effective communication strategies pertaining politically contentious scientific matters.
Notes
Acronyms used in this episode include:
- AI: Artificial intelligence
- AJPH: American Journal of Public Health
- BU: Boston University
- CDC: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
- CFTC: Commodity Futures Trading Commission
- GLP-1: Glucagon-like peptide-1
- GOP: Grand Old Party (also known as Republican Party)
- HIV: Human immunodeficiency virus
- KFF: Kaiser Family Foundation
- MAGA: Make America Great Again
- MAHA: Make America Healthy Again
- MMR: measles, mumps, rubella
- mRNA: Messenger ribonucleic acid
- PAHO: Pan American Health Organization
Useful resources:
- Liu Y, Motta M, Brenna K, et al. Training TikTok creators in mental health communication can benefit their audiences. Computers in Human Behavior Reports. 2026;22:101101. doi:10.1016/j.chbr.2026.101101
- Louis C, Ross JC, Motta M. Sports Betting Ads are Everywhere. That Could be a Public Health Problem. J Gambl Stud. 2026;42(3):1321-1325. doi:10.1007/s10899-026-10497-0
- Motta M. Anti-Scientific Americans: The Prevalence, Origins, and Political Consequences of Anti-Intellectualism in the U.S. Oxford University Press; 2024.
- Motta M, Callaghan T. Quantifying the Polarization of Vaccine Policymaking Across State Legislatures. Published online 2026.
- Motta M, Callaghan T, Lipson SK, Ross J, Strombotne K, Louis C. The Public Health Impact of GLP-1 Advertising Exposure in the U.S. SocArXiv. Preprint posted online January 16, 2026. doi:10.31235/osf.io/gs5x4_v1
- Motta M. The potential public health consequences of “mRNA vaccine stigmatization” in the US. Polit life sci. Published online July 31, 2026:1-10. doi:10.1017/pls.2026.10027
Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla
Editor and producer: Catalina Melendez Contreras
Production assistant: Mateo Diaz Quiroz
Marketing and social media: Kinkini Bhaduri
Research for episode preparation: Catalina Melendez Contreras
Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/
The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.
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