When Tennessee invested $175 million in seven regional pilots to transform how families move from public assistance to sustainable employment, it became the largest anti-poverty experiment of its kind. Now, two and a half years in, the results are surprising—and the lessons are invaluable.

In this episode, host Scott Miller sits down with Kaki Reynolds, Senior Director of Economic Mobility at United Way of Greater Knoxville, and Megan Spurgeon, Director of Empower Upper Cumberland. Together, they’re serving over 5,000 families across 24 counties, testing comprehensive wraparound services that address everything from career coaching to childcare to housing stability.

What they’ve discovered challenges conventional wisdom: rural families are achieving higher self-sufficiency scores than urban ones, despite lower wages. The reason? Housing costs in cities like Knoxville have become an insurmountable barrier, even for families earning more.

But the conversation goes deeper than outcomes. Kaki and Megan reveal the systemic failures that have nothing to do with family motivation—the “benefits cliff” that punishes people for earning an extra dollar, the siloed government platforms that create duplicate work and payments, and the healthcare transitions that leave families vulnerable.

They also share what they’d do differently with another $25 million: expand their now-proven models, embed services in schools for early intervention, and serve populations that current TANF funding excludes, like young adults without children.

This is essential listening for anyone working in social services, workforce development, or economic mobility—and for anyone who believes poverty is solvable if we’re willing to learn from what actually works.

Key Topics:

• The EMPath economic mobility model and ALICE (Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed) framework

• Why the benefits cliff remains the biggest barrier to economic mobility

• The surprising success of rural poverty interventions

• Building talent pipelines from public assistance to sustainable careers

• The critical need for coordinated social service platforms

• What it takes to create lasting community change