PDA: Resistance and Resilience
PDA: Resistance and Resilience
Podcast Description
Welcome to PDA: Resistance and Resilience with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells. Join us for conversations based on lived experience that explore the pervasive drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance (PDA). Together, we examine the emotional logic of resistance, the complexity of internal and external demands, and how to live in integrity with this way of being in the world. pdapodcast.substack.com
Podcast Insights
Content Themes
The podcast focuses on the emotional dynamics of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), exploring topics such as the lived experiences of autonomy, the tension of internal versus external demands, and reframing PDA beyond pathology. Episodes include discussions on how PDA manifests in adulthood and strategies for navigating these challenges, emphasizing personal stories and authenticity.
Welcome to PDA: Resistance and Resilience with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells. Join us for conversations based on lived experience that explore the pervasive drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance (PDA). Together, we examine the emotional logic of resistance, the complexity of internal and external demands, and how to live in integrity with this way of being in the world.
In episode 14, Marni and Chris mark the first anniversary of PDA: Resistance and Resilience the PDA way—a little late, and on our own terms. No guest this time, just the two of us reflecting on how our relationship to PDA has shifted over the year.
We discuss what it means to hold a label lightly, identifying with PDA without making it the whole basket, and the internalized ableism that surfaces when others question whether the label is worth claiming. We talk about the value of multiple lenses (PDA, giftedness) for understanding the same experiences, and why neither has to win.
The conversation moves through our sensitivity to power imbalances and hierarchy: the lifelong discomfort with treating adults as above children, what that meant in school and still means in academia, and how flatter-hierarchy spaces like self-directed learning centers change the experience for everyone. We come back to mentorship and the importance of safe adults in a young PDAer’s life—a thread that runs back to earlier episodes.
Chris shares something personal: rediscovering a 40,000-word unpublished book written at 23 and 24, during a period of major disintegration, and what it reveals about PDA, dignity, and the impact of being told: “You don’t have a choice.” Looking back with compassion rather than judgment, Chris reflects on how today’s lenses make sense of what younger Chris couldn’t yet name.
We close with a look ahead: more collaborations with PDA North America, our upcoming webinars (Marni on unschooling for PDAers in September; Chris on the theory of positive disintegration for PDAers in December), an upcoming trip to Australia for Chris, Marni’s dissertation on PDA families, and gratitude for a year of remarkable guests and conversations.
Links from this episode
Kelsie Olds,The Occuplaytional Therapist
Episodes mentioned by guest:
Ep. 4: All About Functioning Labels with Katy Higgins Lee
Ep. 5: Living on Our Own Terms with Caitlin Hughes
Ep. 6: Traveling with PDA with Becca Campbell
Ep. 7: Creative Resistance with Mattia Maurée
Ep. 8: Mentoring PDAers with Trust and Curiosity with Amy Clark
Ep. 13: The Dirtbag Ethos with Blake Boles
Upcoming PDA North America webinars:
Homeschooling/Unschooling Your PDA Child with Helen Lowry and Marni Kammersell, September 3, 2026, 7-9 pm CST. Click here to register
A Different Mirror: Positive Disintegration & the PDA Experience by Chris Wells, December 10, 2026, 7-8:30 pm CST. Click here to register
Connect With Us
Wandering Brightly with Marni Kammersell
Positive Disintegration with Chris Wells
PDA: Resistance and Resilience on Substack
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