PDA: Resistance and Resilience
PDA: Resistance and Resilience
Podcast Description
Welcome to PDA: Resistance and Resilience with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells. Join us for conversations based on lived experience that explore the pervasive drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance (PDA). Together, we examine the emotional logic of resistance, the complexity of internal and external demands, and how to live in integrity with this way of being in the world. pdapodcast.substack.com
Podcast Insights
Content Themes
The podcast focuses on the emotional dynamics of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), exploring topics such as the lived experiences of autonomy, the tension of internal versus external demands, and reframing PDA beyond pathology. Episodes include discussions on how PDA manifests in adulthood and strategies for navigating these challenges, emphasizing personal stories and authenticity.
Welcome to PDA: Resistance and Resilience with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells. Join us for conversations based on lived experience that explore the pervasive drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance (PDA). Together, we examine the emotional logic of resistance, the complexity of internal and external demands, and how to live in integrity with this way of being in the world.
In episode 15, Chris and Marni are joined by Molly Herald, a therapist in Asheville, North Carolina, and the owner of Neuroabundant, a clinical education and community space for neurodivergent professionals. Marni and Molly first worked together presenting on PDA at the Stanford Neurodiversity Summit.
Molly tells us about being diagnosed ADHD at 17, self-identifying as autistic years later alongside their autistic clients, and finding PDA—the piece that explained what ADHD and autism together still didn’t. Community mental health never worked for them (they never lasted a year anywhere), and like a lot of PDAers, they ended up self-employed because it was the only structure that returned any autonomy.
We talk about what happens after the freedom stops feeling intoxicating: breaking up with insurance companies because the documentation demand was making them a worse therapist, the PDA tax that decision carries, and the case for long-term accessibility—burning out on a sliding scale in two years takes away a decade of care you could have provided. We also get into neuroqueering the shape of a business, emails as an accidental forever no, demand avoidance as a messenger, unpretzeling a knot of compounding demands, and constant compassion as a balm you can apply at every layer. Molly’s advice for anyone newly realizing they might be a PDA adult: you’re not broken, you’re different.
Mentioned:
* Molly’s company, Neuroabundant, has an upcoming retreat to Portugal in November for neurodivergent business builders!
* The course on PDA that Molly and Marni developed and presented with their colleagues
* Ticket Theory by Hilary Knutson
* National Association of Gifted Children conference, held in Milwaukee in November this year, where Chris and Marni will be presenting their work
Connect With Us
Wandering Brightly with Marni Kammersell
Positive Disintegration and cosmic cheer squad with Chris Wells
PDA: Resistance and Resilience on Substack
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