PDA: Resistance and Resilience
PDA: Resistance and Resilience
Podcast Description
Welcome to PDA: Resistance and Resilience with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells. Join us for conversations based on lived experience that explore the pervasive drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance (PDA). Together, we examine the emotional logic of resistance, the complexity of internal and external demands, and how to live in integrity with this way of being in the world. pdapodcast.substack.com
Podcast Insights
Content Themes
The podcast focuses on the emotional dynamics of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), exploring topics such as the lived experiences of autonomy, the tension of internal versus external demands, and reframing PDA beyond pathology. Episodes include discussions on how PDA manifests in adulthood and strategies for navigating these challenges, emphasizing personal stories and authenticity.
Welcome to PDA: Resistance and Resilience with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells. Join us for conversations based on lived experience that explore the pervasive drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance (PDA). Together, we examine the emotional logic of resistance, the complexity of internal and external demands, and how to live in integrity with this way of being in the world.
Content note: This episode includes discussion of suicide, self-mutilation, psychiatric institutionalization, and mental illness in historical and personal contexts. In episode 9, Chris and Marni dive into the theory of positive disintegration (TPD), developed by Polish psychiatrist Kazimierz Dąbrowski. Chris shares the theory’s origins—rooted in Dąbrowski’s own lived experience of intensity and suffering, his clinical work with children who were struggling, and his revolutionary insight that inner conflict, heightened sensitivity, and resistance to conformity could serve as engines of personality development rather than signs of pathology.
They explore overexcitabilities—the five types of heightened psychological experience (emotional, imaginational, intellectual, sensual, and psychomotor)—and why they’ve been misunderstood for decades, confined to the gifted education community. Chris discusses how overexcitability was originally about “nervousness” that was functionally disabling, not a marker of giftedness, and why Dąbrowski should be seen as a forerunner of the neurodiversity movement.
The conversation covers the difference between unilevel and multilevel development—the distinction between conforming to external values and discovering your own hierarchy of values through lived experience—and why conditions and relationships matter so much for which direction development takes. Chris shares openly about their own decades-long journey through unilevel disintegrations before finding the support and connection needed for multilevel growth.
They connect TPD to PDA through discussions of children’s autonomy, lying as developmental experimentation, the importance of letting children experience difficult emotions like guilt and shame as pathways to growth, and the role of relational safety and low-demand approaches in creating conditions where positive disintegration can unfold.
Links mentioned in the episode:
* Wells & Falk (2021): The Origins and Conceptual Evolution of Overexcitability [PDF]
* Positive Disintegration podcast episodes with Autum Romano
Connect With Us
Wandering Brightly with Marni Kammersell
Positive Disintegration with Chris Wells
PDA: Resistance and Resilience on Substack
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