In this episode of the UX Fika podcast, I sit down with Joe Macleod, founder of andEnd and pioneer of Endineering — a practice focused on designing how products, services, and relationships end.

Joe has spent more than three decades working across digital, physical, and service design, including leading design at ustwo. Today, his work centres on something most organisations tend to avoid: what happens at the end. When a customer leaves. When a product is no longer used. Or when a service is no longer needed.

We talk about why endings are often overlooked in design, and what it means when businesses focus almost entirely on acquisition, engagement, and retention, but not on letting go. Joe shares how poorly designed endings can create frustration, waste, and broken relationships, and why more thoughtful off-boarding can actually build trust, loyalty, and long-term value.

We also dive into sustainability, consumption, and responsibility, and how designing better endings is not just a user experience challenge, but a business and societal one. Joe explains how Endineering helps organisations think beyond the moment of use, and consider the full lifecycle of what they create.

Along the way we talk about behaviour, habits, and why people often hold on to things longer than they should. We also touch on Joe’s journey from leading large design teams to focusing on a niche that didn’t exist before, and what it takes to build a new category around something most people haven’t yet named.

I absolutely loved this conversations and it’s intersection with storytelling, and why how things end matters just as much as how they begin.

Plus:

☕️ Why coffee and a chocolate ball is his go to fika

⭐ Why get out of your head and that everything ends is worth remembering

What we cover:

02:22 The Importance of Endings

08:26 Exploring Consumer Experiences and Off-Boarding

15:12 The EuroStack

16:57 The Role of Death in Design and Society

20:01 Justice and Measurement in Consumer Impact

25:56 Innovations in Endings and Off-Boarding Experiences

31:55 The Emotional Weight of Endings

35:25 The Importance of Endings in Storytelling

38:09 Consumer Lifecycle and Brand Experience

41:18 Historical Perspectives on Consumption

44:32 The Shift Towards Sustainable Consumption

47:34 The Role of AI in Modern Relationships

52:55 The Significance of Complete Stories

57:01 The Future of AI and Its Implications

01:05:02 The Role of AI in Human Connection

01:06:35 Living in Sweden: A Personal Journey

01:08:02 Digital Identity and Its Importance

01:09:26 Self-Publishing: The Author's Journey

01:13:22 Navigating Social Media and Marketing Challenges

01:18:25 Future Perspectives: Hope and Concerns

01:22:10 Life Lessons and Personal Reflections

01:24:00 Building a Business: Skills and Networking

Where to find Joe & his work:

• Joe on LinkedIn
• andEnd on LinkedIn
• andEnd's website
• The Endineering book
• Ends book
• Ends ebook – 25% off discount code: NCKEV
• Endineering ebook – 25% off discount code: NCKEV

Where you’ll find Anna & UX Fika:

• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Anna on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The UX Fika Digest newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Here's a taster of what UX Fika offer:

• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Storyboarding Presentations & Deliverables course⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Storytelling For Effective Meetings & Presentations Course⁠⁠⁠⁠ – new cohort starts 11 May