Mario Zechner has watched people generate 500,000 lines of code in a week with a swarm of agents. He'll tell you exactly how that ends.Mario is the creator of Pi, the minimal, self-modifying coding agent that took off after Claude Code stopped fitting his workflow. He now builds it alongside Armin Ronacher at Earendil. This one is a grumpy, honest conversation about where AI coding is actually heading, and the places the hype quietly falls apart.We get into:- Why ”code is never free,” and how a lot of today's productivity just delays the bill- The case that spec-driven development is hyper-waterfall, repeating a mistake the industry thought it solved 30 years ago- Why an army of parallel agents wrecks his brain, and the ”absolute caveman” workflow he actually uses to ship- Running AI fully local on a normal MacBook, and why that future is closer than most people think- The clanker problem- What we lose when AI strips out the friction we used to learn fromThe tension we kept circling: agents make exploring solutions faster than ever, but the thinking was always the hard part, not the typing. 0:00 Intro2:20 Why Pi Fits Workflows8:53 What Success Looks Like for Pi10:58 Building Beyond the Coding Agent13:13 Local AI Is Getting Real20:13 How Mario Actually Works26:38 Discipline, Atrophy, and Juniors29:08 Spec-Driven Dev Is Just Hyper-Waterfall35:03 Code Isn't Actually Free37:56 Async Agents and Thinking Time44:42 Learning Without the Pain49:13 AI's Sloppy Software Wave52:11 GitHub Under Clanker Load53:31 Family, Work, and Balance57:05 The Pi Team and Leadership58:52 Refactoring Pi's Core1:03:32 Security, YOLO, and Trust1:06:27 Taming the PR Flood1:12:11 Token Prices and Budgets