We got to the Moon in eight years using slide rules. We still haven’t returned, despite four times the GDP, twice the population, and artificial intelligence. Robert Zubrin’s diagnosis is blunt: the system is senile.In the final episode of season two, we speak with Dr. Robert Zubrin, aerospace engineer and probably the most influential advocate for human Mars settlement of the last thirty years. He developed the Mars Direct mission architecture with David Baker at Martin Marietta — the plan that made Mars look affordable by manufacturing return propellant on Mars rather than hauling it from Earth. Elon Musk read Zubrin’s book The Case for Mars, which drew him to the Mars Society, and Starship runs on methane and oxygen for exactly the reason Mars Direct specified: it’s the propellant you can make on Mars.The conversation covers why Zubrin thinks we should settle Mars, what caused decades of delay, and whether a Starship lands on Mars in 2029 or 2031. We get into terraforming, his response to the Jakosky 2018 study, and what he thinks about the health effects of space travel.We also discuss where he thinks Musk has it wrong, what the first settlement’s economy looks like, how used Starships could put a seat to Mars within reach of ordinary people, and why he believes Martian colonies will be politically free rather than tyrannical.The Mars Society: https://www.marssociety.org/Their next convention is at USC, October 22-24: https://convention.marssociety.org/This podcast can also be found here: https://linktr.ee/new_horizons_thepodcast