What Do We Do Next? podcast. Hosted by Molly Ruland, CEO and Founder, Heartcast Media. Guest: Rich Logis, Founder and

Executive Director, Leaving MAGA.

What does it take to walk away from a movement you helped build? Rich Logis spent seven years as an active MAGA pundit,

activist, and campaign contributor. Then he looked hard at what he had helped create and decided to spend the next chapter of

his life dismantling it. This episode is about the courage it takes to change your mind in public, and what happens when you do.

Rich Logis is the founder and executive director of Leaving MAGA, an organization supporting people leaving the MAGA

movement, people having doubts, and families of people still in it. He worked on Donald Trump’s campaign, wrote for Fox News,

The Federalist, RealClearPolitics, and WorldNetDaily. He published a public mea culpa on August 30, 2022, has appeared on CNN,

and is the author of the memoir One Betrayal Too Many. Leaving MAGA is now in its third year, with a nationwide billboard

campaign running in 20 states.

Key Takeaways

• Rich Logis opened the interview with an unprompted, on-air apology to Molly before she asked him a single question.
• Rich Logis says the first crack in his MAGA identity came not from Trump but from Ron DeSantis platforming COVID anti-vaxxers during the Delta surge in summer 2021.
• Rich Logis says the Uvalde school shooting on May 24, 2022 was his final breaking point, and that leaving MAGA privately was not enough given how public his support had been.
• Rich Logis says that telling people they are wrong does not work, and recommends instead a practice he calls information bartering, an exchange of news sources designed to widen the information aperture rather than change minds directly.
• Rich Logis says that people in MAGA and people outside it share more common ground than MAGA media allows them to see, including shared hopes for economic opportunity, affordable housing, good schools, and a safe country.
• Rich Logis said, “When you leave MAGA, you become what I like to say, a born again human being. Leaving MAGA for me was good for my soul, psyche, and my mental health.”
• Rich Logis said, “I was addicted to rage and fear. I was always angry at somebody or some group, always fearful of somebody or some group, and the media I consumed reinforced and affirmed those addictions.”

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and Rich Logis background

01:16 Rich Logis opens with an unprompted on-air apology

02:08 What were the first cracks in the MAGA identity

03:03 Ron DeSantis and the Delta surge turning point

03:40 Diversifying news sources and a year of reckoning

05:06 The public mea culpa published August 30, 2022

06:21 How Leaving MAGA the organization was born

07:37 Why community is the engine of MAGA devotion

10:02 Molly on government failure and pandemic loneliness

12:18 Are we near a tipping point, is it speeding up

14:42 The multi-decade propaganda machine and addiction to rage

17:36 Information bartering and how to start the conversation

20:22 What leaving MAGA actually requires

22:29 Molly’s father and finding common ground

23:07 Molly’s account of being detained by ICE in Miami

26:35 How MAGA has torn families apart and what to do now

28:49 Why now is an opportune time to reach the disillusioned

31:18 Molly on obligation, love, and the limits of cutting people off

33:48 Taking the Michelle Obama approach and fighting cynicism

36:27 How to support the Leaving MAGA movement

40:31 Closing and call to action

Connect with Rich Logis

Website: https:/ /leavingmaga.org/

Facebook: https:/ /www.facebook.com/LeavingMAGA/

X: https:/ /x.com/LeavingMAGA

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leavingmaga

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LeavingMAGA/playlists

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@leavingmaga

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/leavingmaga

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@leavingmaga

Podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/leavingmaga/