We went far and wide into the world of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) with Heather Williams, director of the Project on Nuclear Issues and a senior fellow in the Defense and Security Department at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). In addition to talking about the relevance of the NPT in an era of major power disagreement and nuclear proliferation risks, we discussed hot topics among NPT parties, such as the U.S. nuclear umbrella and (the lack of) progress on nuclear disarmament, what non-nuclear weapons states expect from the United States and nuclear allies like the United Kingdom, and how Russia and China use NPT venues to advance narratives that harm tenets of U.S. nuclear strategy, like extended deterrence.

Heather outlines what she’s heard from NPT participants regarding recent meetings, including how effective influence campaigns targeting non-nuclear weapons states impacts the U.S. and U.K. reputations, despite nuclear transparency efforts, and Vipin describes the great power “collusive origins” of the NPT, with credit to friends of the pod (disclaimer: We haven’t asked them whether they’re friends of the pod) Jane Vaynman and Andrew Coe: see here.

After talking about the NPT, we spend a little time thinking through what U.S. arms control policy could be, and should be, taking into account the threat environment and continued expectations of the non-nuclear NPT states parties. The conversation gets a bit wonky as we think about numbers, limits, and foci of future potential arms control agreements with Russia, and whether we should set aside the “old way” of quantitative arms control or think about behavior, norms, and other standards in future agreements.

We end with a strong plug for supporting the next generation of nuclear deterrence and arms control experts – the nuclear “yutes” for My Cousin Vinny fans – a focus for MIT CNSP and of course a huge part of the work Heather is doing at the CSIS Project On Nuclear Issues. Thank you for listening.

Intro/outro music licensed by Soundstripe: “The Iron Curtain” by Wicked Cinema.

Recording and edits through Riverside.fm.

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