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Wishing you a very happy holiday. Over the break, we’re bringing back a few of your favourite Between the Walls episodes for you to enjoy. Thank you so much for your support this year. Have a beautiful holiday, and we can’t wait to be back with Season 2.

In this episode, Janey sits down with her co-hosts — and co-founders of the Architecture + Design Library — Penny and Verity for a warm, honest, and often very funny kōrero about what co-creation really looks like when you’re building something meaningful together.

They unpack what it means to work closely with someone who sees the world differently, creates differently, and responds differently — and how those differences can become your biggest advantage. From trust and tension to shared vision and letting go of control, this episode dives into the real, human side of partnership.

Whether you’re about to launch something with a partner, bring on a collaborator, or you’re simply curious about what makes strong creative relationships work, this one offers so much wisdom and heart.

What you’ll hear in this episode

• How Penny and Verity first met — and why not starting as friends actually helped
• Co-creation as a dance between dominance and surrender
• Why working with someone different elevates your thinking and your work
• Navigating creative tension without taking it personally
• Why they’ve never had a full-blown argument (and don’t expect to)
• What trust really looks like in business — action over perfection
• Staying in your lane, dividing roles, and knowing when to let go
• Why aligned vision matters more than matching styles
• Designing and building in a male-dominated industry — and how they hold their own
• Myths about female partnerships — and why their dynamic works
• The importance of shared goals and flexibility along the way

Reflections

• “We weren’t friends when we started — and that gave us a clean foundation.”
• “Trust is knowing it’ll get done, even if it’s not in your time frame.”
• “We debate constantly — not to argue, but to create better outcomes.”
• “You don’t have to agree on everything, but you do need to want the same result.”
• “We’ve built something based on respect — and that gives us room to be ourselves.”
• “You don’t need to think alike. You need to listen well.”

Questions from AD Library Members

• Penny: What does success look like to you?
• Verity: If you weren’t doing what you’re doing now, what path might you have taken?
• Penny: What design rule would you love to break — and why?
• Verity: What part of the industry do you feel is still stuck in the past?

Connect with AD Library
Instagram: @adlibrary.nz
Website: adlibrary.nz

Follow the podcast on Instagram: @betweenthell_lls