Saifennasr ”Versátil” Ismail is a Capoeira Mestre, mental health counselor, polyglot, and IT professional. A true teacher, he finds lessons in every moment and movement. In this conversation, we explored his upbringing in a polygamist family in Detroit and North Africa, the effects of childhood sexual trauma, and how these experiences led him to mental health work and a lifelong dedication to Capoeira, which he’s now taught worldwide for over 30 years.

We discussed religion, spirituality, sexual repression in the Middle East, and how wartime behaviors shape peacetime culture and politics. It was a fascinating interview—and an honor to say that I’m one of his students.

Timestamps:
[Recorded on 7/14/2024]

0:00 Intro
1:30 Family
3:25 Childhood Beatings
6:48 Polygamist family dynamic (Detroit & North Africa)
18:30 Communal living in Tunisia
20:28 Reverse culture shock returning to the U.S.
26:05 Trauma of family separation in the Middle East
28:25 Baramay’s ancestral trauma
30:02 Life in Michigan after the Middle East
34:24 Wanting to be understood
36:45 Struggling to connect with others
39:00 Uncovering childhood sexual abuse
43:08 Polygamy vs. polyamory
44:04 Trust issues in relationships
45:18 Eastern vs. Western confrontation styles
46:57 Dissociative Fugue
48:48 Mind, Body, Spirit integration
53:25 Root Cause Analysis, Empiricism, Maya
58:55 Religions as different templates for the same truth
1:04:08 Sexual repression in the Middle East
1:09:04 Feminist origins of Islam
1:11:14 Media branding of cultures & religions
1:12:40 Warrior traditions, art, and introspection
1:15:28 The spiritual void that drives greed
1:18:53 Meeting Capoeira in 1991
1:20:40 Male Survivor retreat—deep healing
1:22:06 Why Capoeira is healing
1:24:45 Studying Somatic Experiencing at Pacifica
1:28:13 Origins of Baramay’s depression
1:31:31 What a Somatic Experiencing session is like
1:35:54 Parallels between Somatic Experiencing & Buddhism
1:39:35 Healing work brings resistance
1:40:16 Challenges within Capoeira culture
1:42:18 Making conflict constructive in Capoeira
1:43:58 Internal and social issues in Capoeira today
1:49:48 Speaking ~15 languages
1:51:55 Language learning approach
1:54:50 Learning Cantonese on a flight
1:57:57 Multilingual Q&A (Arabic, French, Japanese, Thai, Korean, Portuguese)
2:13:00 Plans to host impactful events
2:14:06 Safe Schools initiatives for Capoeira
2:16:20 Capoeira Baiana—fun & open
2:17:23 Capoeira Miudinho—expressive & nonviolent
2:18:56 Beach Miudinho—bendy, inverted escapes
2:20:20 Muzenza Fight—Capoeira tournaments
2:23:28 Rough Roda
2:23:55 Capoeira Angola—slow & low
2:25:53 Capoeira today: not just a sport, but a job
2:27:20 Accessible entry points for all levels
2:28:12 Israeli CDO Capoeira—aerial & escapist
2:30:45 Movimento Novo—no ranks, no single style
2:33:22 Capoeira as one piece of life’s puzzle
2:35:20 Striving to live to our fullest potential

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