“I can’t figure you out.”

That’s what Joe’s first counselor told him in treatment. She had clients who’d been born addicted, clients who’d watched a parent murdered, and then she had Joe — good childhood, both parents, both sets of grandparents, no reason anyone could point to. She couldn’t work out how he’d ended up in the chair across from her.

This is Part 2 of the two-part swap. Last episode Joe asked the questions. This week Mike turns it around, with help from ChatGPT, and gets a lot further than either of them expected.

The first half is the long way round. Queen Anne Colony, the year and a half when his parents split and he lived across the bridge at Cape St. Clair, and coming back to Centreville in fifth grade as the new kid in the lowest grade in the school. Karate from middle school to seventeen. Hunting with his dad, then guiding for his uncle’s outfitting business until fourteen-hour days in the cold burned it out of him. The guitar his dad bought off another kid his senior year, and the hours spent getting Blackbird wrong until it was right.

Then the jobs, and there are a lot of them: scraping and waxing boat bottoms at Island Yacht Brokers at thirteen, alone in the yard hitting rocks with a piece of wood and calling the play-by-play. Painting houses. Landscaping in Juneau, Alaska, and a salmon and halibut charter. A seasonal naturalist gig at Tuckahoe State Park with owls and red-tailed hawks. Cutting greens at Queenstown. And thirty minutes at J.Crew before he told them he had to get something out of his car, drove away, and never went back.

After the break it turns. Joe got clean at 31, when his son was two, and then spent about six years working inside addiction treatment — residential coordinator, admissions, and eventually a counselor. He’s clear-eyed about what he saw: treatment is a good thing and treatment is a business, and the further up the chain you go the more the second one shows. He walks through two clients he had at the same time, one on private insurance and one on state, and why the one who needed him most got seen least.

And then his own story, told plainly. Skoal as a cart boy at Prospect Bay. Beers left behind after tournaments. Being against weed until he wasn’t, then a full-blown pothead inside two weeks. The first Percocet, which he names as the real turning point. The Oxycontin years. Why he never ended up shooting heroin — and the night before treatment when he asked his dealer to do it for him, and the dealer said no, because he knew Joe wouldn’t go if he did.

Two relapses after that, one at ninety days installing satellite dishes for DirecTV, and one nobody knew about for two years until it surfaced during step work with his sponsor. He changed his clean date and told his home group. He’s just as matter-of-fact about a couple of drinks in the last six months.

The hardest decision he’s ever made wasn’t getting clean. It was accepting he had to go all in — and it came down to reading a pamphlet in a common room between groups and not being able to answer no to a single question on it.

The last half hour is lighter and better for it: how he found out he could sing by calling his own answering machine and singing into the voicemail, the only book he’s ever read and the ten pages of it he skipped, and what success actually means when you’re honest that it includes money.

There’s a baby due October 2nd, a twelve-year-old with two travel teams, a print-on-demand t-shirt idea he keeps not starting, and a barn studio he’d build tomorrow.

Part 1 — where Joe asks the questions — is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJ31SxHqSk

What shift have you experienced in your life?

CHAPTERS
00:00 Wayfinders Testicular Health Fund
00:45 Welcome to Episode 41
01:12 Part 2 of the swap — Mike asks the questions
01:44 “What’s your favorite thing about me?”
02:16 A weekend of gigs, and a voice that’s shot
03:00 The guy who asked to sing at Betty’s
05:47 “You don’t cuss anymore”
06:29 “I wish you would just buy a new car”
07:18 Childhood, and a brother named Jake
08:55 His parents split — moving to Cape St. Clair
09:21 Back to Centreville in fifth grade
10:25 The new kid in the lowest grade in the school
11:40 Redneck row, and where Joe parked instead
12:18 Hunting with his dad
13:21 Guiding in his twenties, and burning out
13:52 “Have you ever killed a man?”
14:11 When music entered
14:57 Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam
15:33 The guitar his dad bought him senior year
16:05 Sitting down with Blackbird
17:59 Karate, middle school to 17
19:40 Mentors, and both grandfathers
22:13 Mr. Nicely and the wood carving class
24:12 A real fear of heights
24:41 Wishing he was a better guitar player
25:34 Maine, Alaska, Yellowstone — and never Europe
26:40 Every job he’s ever had
27:06 Island Yacht Brokers at 13, and hitting rocks with a stick
29:30 Thirty minutes at J.Crew
29:55 Brett, and the move to Juneau
31:56 Tuckahoe State Park, owls and hawks
33:15 What’s the actual goal when you cut grass?
34:09 Queenstown Golf Course grounds crew
36:54 Getting clean, and going to work in treatment
37:25 Serenity Acres, and what an RC actually does
38:46 Admissions, insurance, and a pay cut to go back
41:30 George, and the job at Evolve
42:34 Burning out, and picking up a camera
42:59 Sponsor — Wayfinders THF & Putts Fore! Nuts
44:31 What makes a treatment center good or bad
44:49 “It’s a great thing. However, it is a business.”
46:53 Why insurance decides who gets care
47:48 Private insurance vs. state insurance
50:50 Too much recovery, recovery, recovery
52:12 Skoal at Prospect Bay
53:33 Against weed, then full-blown in two weeks
54:27 Percocet, and the real turning point
56:39 The Oxycontin years
58:05 Why he never shot up
59:04 The night his dealer said no
59:41 Going to treatment at 31
1:01:05 DirecTV, and a thought out of nowhere
1:02:07 Back to treatment the second time
1:03:22 The Tylenol with codeine he hid for two years
1:04:33 Telling his home group, and changing his clean date
1:05:50 The hardest decision he’s ever made
1:06:11 Going all in on a 12-step program
1:08:00 The NA pamphlet in the common room
1:08:51 Two weeks of “Hi, I’m Joe”
1:09:29 Why videography
1:11:36 Learning aperture off YouTube
1:14:10 Priorities — and a baby due October 2nd
1:16:13 Print-on-demand t-shirts
1:17:23 “Drunken Grown Ups” and other dumb shirts
1:18:47 If money weren’t an issue
1:20:08 The studio he’d build
1:21:49 When he figured out he could sing
1:22:12 Singing into his own answering machine
1:24:18 Finding your voice, and being scared to belt it
1:27:37 Rapid fire
1:27:52 The only book he’s ever read
1:29:38 Dog or cat
1:30:34 What does success actually mean?
1:31:04 “That definitely does include money”
1:31:38 Wanting to spend $5,000 without worrying
1:34:09 The dream house, and a big finished barn
1:36:07 What he hopes his grandkids say
1:37:31 When he feels most alive
1:38:31 What would surprise someone who knew him at 18
1:40:10 Wayfinders Testicular Health Fund

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY WAYFINDERS TESTICULAR HEALTH FUND
Be Bold. Be Brave. Be Aware.

Wayfinders THF is a Maryland-based 501(c)(3) dedicated to impacting the lives and health of young men by combating testicular cancer through awareness, education, fundraising, and community support — with a focus on men aged 14 to 35. A component fund of Chesapeake Charities.

Website: https://www.wayfindersthf.org
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wayfindersthf
Donate: https://ccharities.fcsuite.com/erp/donate/create/fund?funit_id=2419

PUTTS FORE! NUTS — 2nd Annual Charity Mini-Golf Tournament
Saturday, October 17, 2026 · 11:30 AM – 6:00 PM
Embers Island Mini-Golf, 2305 Philadelphia Ave Suite #4, Ocean City, MD 21842
Event info: https://www.wayfindersthf.org/putts-fore-nuts
Register / donate: https://ccharities.fcsuite.com/erp/donate/list/event?event_date_id=2419
Sponsorships available at every level — team, tee box, prizes, t-shirts and more.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Dave Matthews Band · Nirvana · Soundgarden · Stone Temple Pilots · Pearl Jam · Toadies · Phish
“Come As You Are” · “Blackbird” · “Yellow Ledbetter” · “Wild Horses” · “Folsom Prison Blues” · “Bad Moon Rising” · “Stir It Up” · 40oz. to Freedom
Queen Anne Colony · Cape St. Clair · Centreville Middle School · Kent Narrows · Betty’s · Pintail Point · Prospect Bay · Queenstown Golf Course · Tuckahoe State Park · Juneau, Alaska · Salisbury University · Mardela Springs · Fairlee
Island Yacht Brokers · J.Crew · DirecTV · Serenity Acres · Evolve · Narcotics Anonymous
Chesapeake by James Michener · Surviving the Game · Ultimate Guitar · ChatGPT

SUPPORT THE SHIFT WITH MIKE & JOE
Website: https://www.theshiftwithmikeandjoe.com
Donate: https://www.theshiftwithmikeandjoe.com/giving-page-2-1
Email: [email protected]
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Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-shift-with-mike-joe/id1813198065
Podbean: https://joer7.podbean.com

CONNECT WITH MIKE & JOE

Michael Waskey Music
Website: https://www.michaelwaskey.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michaelwaskeymusic
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michaelwaskeymusic

Kent Island Academy of Music (Mike)
Website: https://kentislandacademyofmusic.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KentIslandAcademyOfMusic/

Image & Sound Media (Joe)
Website: https://www.imagesoundmedia.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094021747690
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imageandsoundmedia
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@imagesoundmedia
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@imagesoundmedia

Joe Bryan Music
Website: https://www.joebryanmusic.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61550810556745
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joebryanmusic
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@joebryanmusic

PODCAST PRODUCTION GEAR (EPISODE 41)
Cameras: Sony A7 IV, Sony A7 V, Sony FX3
Main Audio: Shure SM7B (Joe & Mike)
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 18i18
Audio Software: Reaper
Video Editing: DaVinci Resolve Studio
Lighting: Amaran 100x & 200x softboxes + Amaran tube lights

The Shift with Mike & Joe is fully produced by Image & Sound Media.
https://www.imagesoundmedia.com

If you or someone you know is struggling with substance use, the SAMHSA National Helpline is free and confidential: 1-800-662-4357.

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