“Immersive learning is all about having these assumptions and putting them to the test.”

Michiel Hulsbergen, Founder @ DialogueTrainer

Episode 02 – Michiel Hulsbergen on Training Conversational Skills with Digital Avatars

In this second episode of the Training Improvement Café, Roy sits down with psychologist and DialogueTrainer founder Michiel Hulsbergen. Together, they explore how conversation simulations can boost learning transfer, help professionals build real confidence, and make complex interpersonal skills more trainable and scalable.

💡 Spoiler alert: If you think your training is effective because learners feel confident, think again.

About Michiel

Michiel Hulsbergen is a psychologist with a background in business administration and decades of experience in conversation skills training. He started out as a training actor before founding DialogueTrainer, a company that creates simulation-based learning environments for soft skills. With over 20 years in the field and a decade focused on learning technologies, Michiel brings a rich perspective on the intersection of psychology, emotions, and technology-enhanced learning.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• Why Michiel thinks traditional text-based training can create false confidence

• How interactive simulations make learners more aware of complex interpersonal dynamics

• Why emotion and believability are essential ingredients in learning transfer

• How DialogueTrainer’s tools are used to support real-world leadership development

• The impact of avatar-based practice versus real-life role play

• The surprising power of immersive learning to surface implicit skills and emotional insight

Featured Simulation: Game-Changing Leadership

Roy and Michiel explore a live leadership simulation that helps managers improve coaching skills through realistic dialogue. The demo showcases:

• Building rapport and guiding conversations strategically

• Subtle emotional cues in avatar interactions

• Reflective decision-making in high-stakes leadership moments

Quick tips to apply right away

• Don’t just aim for confidence—aim for realistic confidence. Simulations can challenge learners’ assumptions and surface hidden gaps in their skills.

• Use emotion as a signal, not a distraction. Train learners to reflect on their emotional responses during conversations to better understand behaviour.

• Combine text and simulation. Reading builds understanding, but simulations provoke reflection and make learning stick.

• Start with practice, not theory. Use immersive scenarios to confront learners with realistic challenges before offering explanatory models.

• Design for reflection, not just performance. Include moments where learners pause, assess options, and predict outcomes.

• Role-play isn’t dead—it’s scalable. Use avatar-based role-play to create safe, repeatable practice environments that mimic real pressure.

Michiel’s sources of inspiration

• Keith Keating – The Trusted Learning Advisor

• Paul Ekman – Facial expression and emotion theory

• Lisa Feldman Barrett – Constructed emotion and behavioural science

• Nico Frijda – Emotions as promoters of interest

• Frans de Waal – Primate behaviour and social interaction

Want to learn more?

• Visit dialoguetrainer.com to explore the tools and research behind DialogueTrainer.

• Read The Trusted Learning Advisor by Keith Keating for a call to arms for modern L&D professionals.

• Look up Frans de Waal’s Chimpanzee Politics for behavioural insights with a smile.

We’d love your feedback!

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