What happens when you mix marketing smarts with L&D practice? In this episode, Roy talks with Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor, co-authors of Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro. Together, they explore how marketing mindsets and methods can help learning professionals better understand their audience, personalise training, and move beyond one-size-fits-none learning.

💡 Spoiler alert: Thinking like a marketer doesn't mean just ”jazzing up” your courses.

About Bianca & Mike

Bianca Baumann is a learning strategist based in Toronto with roots in business education and a passion for designing campaigns that drive behaviour change. Mike Taylor is a learning designer with a background in digital marketing, known for his Friday Finds newsletter full of L&D inspiration. Together, they believe L&D can learn a lot from marketing…if we’re willing to listen.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• Why it’s a problem if your course needs to be “jazzed up”
• What L&D can learn from email marketing and digital body language
• How personas and empathy maps help you really understand your learners
• Why “go to Gemba” is still solid advice for L&D teams
• What to try first if you want to design learning as a campaign
• Why “Compliance 101” might not be the best title for your course
• How Mike and Bianca accidentally ended up writing a book together

Resources & inspiration

📘 Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro – by Bianca & Mike

📚 Alchemy by Rory Sutherland

📚 *Books & blogs by Seth Godin*

💌 Friday Finds by Mike Taylor

📰 MarketingProfs.com

🏢 Content Marketing Institute

Quick tips to apply right away

• Start your next learning journey with audience interviews, not assumptions

• Use headline tools (or AI) to craft more engaging course titles
• Test small campaigns using tools you already have (like email)
• Think beyond your LMS—learning can happen anywhere
• Call it a pilot if you want to try something new without pushback

Episode highlights

[00:01:00] – Why learning needs a marketing mindset

[00:10:00] – Why digital body language matters for L&D too

[00:13:00] – The mistake of buying tools before building strategy

[00:16:00] – Personas vs. demographics and how to create them

[00:18:00] – The training that failed because of a 64K connection

[00:21:00] – Behaviour change starts with meaning, not more info

[00:24:00] – Thinking beyond LMS: the electric vehicle expo story

[00:27:00] – Using triggers like clickbait (ethically!) in learning

[00:30:00] – How to get buy-in for new ideas: “yes, and…”

[00:32:00] – Common resistance from L&D purists and how to respond

[00:34:00] – Why standing your ground takes time and confidence

[00:37:00] – Inspiration sources and real-world marketing examples

[00:41:00] – Bianca’s first learning crush: a situational leadership course

[00:43:00] – Mike’s least favourite myth: learning styles

We’d love your feedback!

What did you think of this episode? Do you apply any marketing ideas in your training design? Let us know via [email] or drop us a message on [LinkedIn].

📣 Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with fellow L&D pros who want to make learning actually work.