In this episode, I sit down with food historian Zach Nowak (PhD) to dig into the real history behind iconic Italian dishes — and why so much of what we think we know is wrong. This is a conversation about culture, migration, nationalism, and the stories we tell ourselves about food.

We get into the salt wars in Umbria and why Umbrians still eat unsalted bread, the cultural symbolism of torta al testo, and how pizza evolved from street food to a national icon. We talk about the real story behind pizza Margherita, the messy (and possibly American) origins of carbonara, and the birth of Italian-American cuisine. Zach breaks down why “authentic” Italian food is mostly a myth, how bad wine used to be, and why culinary traditions — like food itself — are always evolving. It’s funny, surprising, and full of stories you probably haven’t heard before.

🍕 We cover:

• Why Umbrians eat unsalted bread (and fought a salt war)

• How torta al testo fits into local identity

• Pizza’s evolution from poor people’s food to global symbol

• The myth of pizza Margherita

• Carbonara’s possibly American roots

• How Italian-American food became its own thing

• Why “authentic” Italian food doesn’t really exist

• The surprisingly bad history of Italian wine

• Food myths, nostalgia, and what’s actually worth preserving

📚 Books mentioned in the episode:

• Hungering for America –https://amzn.to/4oYOsLT

• The History of Pizza (translated by Zach) –https://amzn.to/4pHmwxn

• On Food and Cooking –https://amzn.to/48GiXl5

• Truffle: A Global History by Zach Nowak –https://amzn.to/3KYPARE

About me: I'm Anthony Calvanese — an American living in Italy since 2022. I’ve traveled across all 20 regions and share honest insights about Italian culture, travel, and food — without the fluff.