This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with journalist, screenwriter, and author Ella Quittner, whose new book, Obsessed with the Best,digs into what it means to care deeply about what you make. We get into her Five Rules for Telling a Good Story, from finding your angle to chasing the emotional gut punch, and why approaching every subject with humanity is non-negotiable. Ella breaks down how she moves between journalism, fiction, and food writing without losing her voice, and shares the practical ways she builds stories from scratch, even when the idea isn’t fully there yet. It’s a conversation about process, discipline, and the reality of making something worth reading.

I love this episode because it cuts through the romantic version of writing and gets into the actual work. Ella is deep in it, doing the reps, figuring it out in real time, and she’s generous enough to explain how it actually happens. There’s no posturing here, just three rats in a trench coat sharing clear, usable insights for anyone who wants to write and not just talk about writing. If you’re trying to find your voice, or even understand what that means, this is the kind of conversation that gives you a way in and makes the whole thing feel possible.

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Introduction

Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with journalist, screenwriter, and author Ella Quittner, whose new book, Obsessed with the Best, is out now on HarperCollins wherever books are sold. She shares her five rules for telling a good story. She talks about the importance of approaching each story with humanity to narrow in on the gut punch of every narrative and that when you find your own voice in your own words, that’s when you’ll find real success in your writing. It is a great conversation for anyone looking to share stories they love, to elevate the words they write, and for anyone who’s thinking about writing something for the first time. So let’s get into the rules.

Meeting Ella Quittner

Ella, it is pretty crazy that this isn’t the first time we’re meeting because I feel like we have all of the same colleagues and friends in the food scene. I agree and I feel mad at them for not introducing us. I’ve been reading a lot of your work for years. What I’ve always found is that storytelling is such an essential part of what you do and what you write about.

Early Storytelling

Do you remember the first story outside of your own life that you wanted to tell? When I was a child, my sister and I used to make comic books, my older sister Zoe and I. She would illustrate Mm-hmm. really uproariously funny. Love it. That was the first story I wanted to tell, which is just being a young child, feeling humiliation, but also delight at my grandma ordering a knish at a deli.

The Emotional Duality of Writing

So much of personal writing can be humiliating and exalting. empowering and lonely. There really is this duality in that act of creativity, especially when it comes down to just you and either a computer or a pen and a piece of paper. How do you balance those juxtaposed emotions and stay motivated?

The emotions of wanting to quit and give up and feeling like a failure and self-doubt, but then also that egotistical, maybe I keep going or that thing where you have this inflated sense of the importance of what you’re doing. All those you mean? Your words, not mine, but yes.

the older i’ve gotten and the more i’ve written professionally across different fields and genres whether it’s journalism screenwriting fiction food writing cookbooks etc the more i’ve been able to learn to separate my expectations from the outcomes and not seek external validation but just try to create work that i’m proud of that goes a really long way toward letting you feel less tortured in the process because i remember being in my 20s being like oh my god i wish i was Helen Rosner i wish i was David today i’m sorry i wish i I wish I was all these people and I’m just some f*****g idiot in the East Village trying to write 400 words.

Once you embrace, why am I doing this? No one’s making me do it. It doesn’t pay well. I don’t have to be doing it. So there must be something that I think I’m uniquely bringing to it. and try and separate yourself from the outcome of anyone reading it. Is anyone going to care? I mean, you do want to add something to the conversation, but I think separating yourself from how it’s received and caring about what the reception is going to be goes a long way.

Finding that pride and ownership of what do I want to say helps because then of course you can only say it the way you know how. You can’t say it like George Saunders or Helen Ross or David Stairs. You could only say it like Darren. Or Ella. Or Ella.

Writing and the Creative Process

Being able to separate yourself from the process and the creativity and the creation is probably the most healthy attitude to have in going to releasing your debut cookbook, Obsessed with the Best. I loved it. I thought it was an excellent balance between recipes and essays and anecdotes. How did you land on the right mix to make it what you truly wanted to say?

That was a tricky balance because I’m a verbose person and there’s no limit to how deep I’ll go on a topic or how many tangents or reporting whims I’ll follow. And I will find a story in every single one of them. That’s just who I am. Of course.

Despite all best efforts. I have a very producorial brain. So knowing I have to do all this stuff. So how can I fit in the stuff I want to do, but still turn in the other stuff as well that is more time consuming or labor intensive, that’s less flashy work.

Being able to produce, being able to be your own boss and editor is such a key part to hitting any deadlines and to really getting the pieces you want out in the world and figuring out what you want to say, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for telling a good story.

Rule #1: Call Your Sister

Many of us who’ve written, especially in the food world, find themselves wanting to tell the same story that other journalists or people want to tell. Your first rule talks about the key importance of making any story your own. What’s your rule number one?

Rule number one is call your sister. Go on. This is sort of a cheeky, euphemistic way of saying it. What is your angle? You have to identify that.

This applies not just to journalism, where if you’re pitching an editor, you do have to pitch a very, very specific story. It should be an idea that you’re especially well suited to it. explore it should be built into that angle but also applies to a book a novel a television show a feature script a proposal for a cookbook it’s not enough to say i just want to explore this topic it’s an interesting topic you need a lens.

So i think about it like i’m going to call my sister and tell them a story i wouldn’t call my sister to tell her a funny story that happened at work last week and just start that conversation going hey zoe hey clementine funny story or you know work work’s a topic we should talk about right.

I would drop them into a specific scene with my specific perspective and a specific mood. And I would tell that story so that every piece of it is calibrated to set up to the punchline. I don’t think this is advice that only applies to funny stories. If I was going to call someone and tell them an emotional story, I’m going to calibrate it similarly just using different levers.

So I call it call your sister because if I’m stuck on an idea and I don’t know what the angle on my topic is, I think, okay, I’m going to call my sister. How would I tell her? I think having that angle, especially when your sister or sibling is like, I got 30 seconds for you, for you to keep my attention. Literally. Is really important.

That being said, when you do hit a certain level of career or you have a good relationship with an editor, you can pitch a little bit more topic when there’s trust that you’re going to dig into a person or a theme to find out the story that you want to tell.

Rule #2: Collect a Giant Pile of Details

Which ties directly into your rule number two. That’s true. And I will go into two, but I also think it’s worth saying you don’t want to have a preconceived conclusion when you pitch an editor. You want to have a lens and a POV and some ideas about why this might be the case. Yes. But you do want to be really open to gathering, especially in the nonfiction space, gathering a bunch of information and exploring what conclusion that leads you to.

Which does lead to rule number two. If you simply can’t identify your angle, collect a giant pile of details. If I’m having trouble figuring out the in and out of a scene or what a pilot should look like or how to structure journalism piece or what that core thesis leading into it that I want to test and report out is I will make tons of notes for myself.

Like I will scribble in a journal or an iPhone note. I will interview 15 people. The whole purpose of this reporting and brainstorming and I’ll read another book. I’ll read another article. I’ll go on Wikipedia. I’ll watch a TV show. I’ll watch a movie. It’s just trying to figure out what is jumping out as interesting and important.

And then in a secondary sense, what is supporting what is interesting and what is important. It’s also pattern identification. If you don’t know exactly what the story is, is sometimes talking to a bunch of people and realizing, okay, they’re all consumers of these new meal replacement products that look like Soylent, but kind of yassified for millennials.

And they’re all telling me that the reason they’re buying them is because they’re really overstimulated by this overconsumption, max content, hellscape we live in. And they’re all telling me that these things are saving them time. That’s helpful, right? That’s like a pattern. That’s people saying this is one reason.

It might not be the only reason. And you know, it’s only five people saying that. So it might not be the end all be all of the story, but it’s information that will help you then think, okay, that’s a backbone of what I’m putting together.

Rule #3: Approach Your Story with Humanity

Connecting your story through the way that people actually live and how they feel about it is really important. It has been said that we live in a cynical world and it’s very easy to come in with some snark or preconceived judgments and really find the negative aspect of it.

Your third rule talks about having an open heart when you go into writing. What’s your rule number three? Rule number three is approach your story with humanity.

I agree. I think it’s very easy to be judgmental or in my case, overly cynical. I do think one of the best ways you can be of service to any story is really try to understand everyone’s perspectives and have empathy or sympathy for other points of view. Agreed.

Situations are so rarely black and white. So of course, this applies to nonfiction and journalism and the people you’re interviewing. But I think it especially applies to fiction and screenwriting. I think it’s a failure to not let every character be fully formed and nuanced. Otherwise, you end up with a story that’s so one dimensional and boring, no one can relate to it.

When there is no one who can relate to an actual story, you lose the people completely.

Rule #4: Find the Gut Punch

A lot of the times when I think about writing, I think about the opening and that very classic five paragraph essay, that universal line that brings everyone in. But there is a part that comes in every narrative that is the key moment that really shows off what you’re trying to tell differently and in a unique way that no one else could.

What’s your rule number four? Rule number four is close your eyes and just imagine the gut punch. All the time. It could be this deep emotional moment where you’re tearing up. It could be a punchline. It could be a shocking reveal.

What is your intended emotional effect? Because you need to know what that is so that you can fiddle with the dials that can amplify it, tamp it down, create twists and turns, build tension and pace it in a way that we’re leading up to it before the reader wants to put it down. And then when you get to that point, have that max impact that you’re intending.

Pacing is such a huge part of writing. Every book is going to tell you a different way to pace your story and you yourself are going to find what works best for you.

Rule #5: Don’t Be Bound by Rules

It took me until college till I found my voice, which is to say for your fifth and final rule that there are many ways to tell a story. Yeah. What’s your rule number five?

Rule number five is listen to everybody’s rules and try them out, but don’t feel bound by them. Yes. Especially mine, by the way. I’m aware of the hypocrisy of this being my rule. I’m just three rats in a trench coat. I don’t know anything all your life worth. try to give you advice on becoming a better writer.

And a lot of it is fantastic. And a lot of it is coming from a good place. People really do want to help you get your ideas out there in a legible way. Of course. But there is no one size fits all to tell a story, write a write a journalism feature call your sister and tell a good story you might bring something really particular to a story that someone’s pre-existing rules might not apply to so you should feel open to that.

When you’re trying to work your way up say you’re just out of college and you want to start getting some bylines and real publications you can build up your essay of Of course, you’re going to have to follow some rules in order to climb ladders. Of course.

But if it’s a story that you’re passionate about that you’re crafting just for you, you should give yourself the freedom to do it however you want, at least in the first brush.

Closing

Ella, if people want to buy the book, check out your writing, see what you’re up to out in the world, where can they go? They can buy the book by searching Obsessed with the Best, Ella Quittner, walking into any bookstore, and they can find me on Instagram at E-Q-U-I-T-T-N-E-R.

Next time we’re in the same city, we’re going to shame all the people that didn’t introduce us by having a cup of coffee together. Congratulations on everything. I can’t wait to get my hands on a physical coffee. Thank you. And I can’t wait to have that coffee. Our mutuals will rue the day. Rue it.

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