Behind the Brief | Honest Stories from the World of Marketing
Behind the Brief | Honest Stories from the World of Marketing
Podcast Description
Ever felt like you’re the only one figuring things out as you go in marketing? You’re not alone. Welcome to Behind the Brief—the podcast where we talk about the real, unfiltered side of marketing.
Podcast Insights
Content Themes
The podcast covers various themes related to product marketing including fractional management, AI integration, and career development within PMM roles. Specific episodes delve into handling client relations against a backdrop of customer feedback, the evolution of data-driven marketing, and the storytelling aspect of product marketing in the context of AI, providing actionable insights for both aspiring and seasoned professionals.

Ever felt like you’re the only one figuring things out as you go in marketing? You’re not alone. Welcome to Behind the Brief—the podcast where we talk about the real, unfiltered side of marketing.
Product marketers live in contradictions.We’re expected to think like product, speak like sales, write like marketing, and optimize like demand gen, all at the same time.
And yet, in most orgs, our visible output is often reduced to decks. Pretty slides, competitive kits, webinar briefs… assets that look polished and feel tangible but sometimes leave even us wondering:
Did this actually matter? Did I influence anything? Did anyone even use this beyond the launch day?
Which brings me to the heart of today’s newsletter and the latest conversation on the Behind the Brief Podcast, featuring Doug Kimball, Senior Director of Product Marketing at Digital Science.
Doug’s also writing a book called So What, Why, Who Cares (slated for early 2026), but the title isn’t meant to be clever clickbait. It’s literally the mental filter that changed his career trajectory forever.
The Post-it Note Moment
A few years into his product marketing career, Doug joined an org running a massive manufacturing segment within a supply chain software business. A competitor was aggressively eating into their deals, so Doug was handed a high-visibility assignment: build a competitive killer kit.
He did what any motivated PMM would do: research the product inside out, analyze the competition, pull insights, write messaging, and assemble a beautiful 20-slide deck that he was genuinely proud of.
Four slides in, his VP stopped him.
“Doug, stop. Why are you doing this?”
Not “why as in what is the task,” but “why do these messages exist? Why these words? Why this slide structure?”
Then came the real punch:
“Sales doesn’t care. They’ll think marketing isn’t listening.”
No sugar-coating. No gentle ramp-up. Just brutal clarity.
The VP pulled out a Post-it note, wrote:So What. Why. Who Cares.
And asked Doug to rewrite the entire narrative through that lens.
What Happened When He Rebuilt It
Doug re-wrote, re-structured, re-thought the whole deck:
* Less jargon, more outcomes
* Fewer claims, more human signals
* Messaging optimized not for Doug’s brain, but for sales teams that speak to customers every day
That competitive kit didn’t just get used; it reshaped corporate messaging, got live-tested with sales, and eventually ended up being presented on the main stage by the CEO and CMO of the company.
One tiny Post-it note did more for Doug than years of feedback sandwiches ever could.
Not because the work changed, but because the questions behind the work changed.
PMMs vs AI vs the War Zone
Another powerful thread that came up in the conversation was around AI.
Doug put it beautifully:
* AI is a thought partner.
* AI can help create messaging.
* But AI can’t replicate human-centric, outcome-focused clarity in context.
PMMs drive messaging. AI supports it. People validate it.
And anyone who says GenAI will replace PMMs has likely never seen a product launch fall apart when there’s no one connecting the dots between product timelines, stakeholder expectations, sales motions, analyst positioning, and customer resonance.
Because PMMs aren’t just messaging experts.We are the central stirring pot, the organizational glue that makes sure everyone is rowing in the same direction, even if they don’t realize it.
We manage expectations, translate nuances, absorb chaos across teams, and build alignment almost invisibly. And then, at the end of the quarter, someone asks:
“Okay cool, but… what did you actually do?”
And we smile and say:…a lot.
The Metric Gray Area
One theme I personally resonated with was around PMM metrics.
It’s hard to prove:“This deck led to a $1M sale.”
But what you can influence, and measure, are things like:
* Higher click-through to demo requests
* Better dwell time and lower bounce rate (message-driven UX + positioning flow)
* Analyst mentions and industry quadrant movement
* Winning narratives post-launch, not just launch-day fireworks
* Internal clarity uptake across workshops, scripts, conversations, and pre-sale loops
Data without a story is just a spreadsheet.But data-storytelling is when PMMs become undeniable.
Even I’ve seen it in my career, if I can tell a narrative through data, even if the launch stumbled… I’m influencing the culture. I’m learning publicly. And that’s impact too.
From “Messaging Person” to “Clarity Builder”
Doug explained a key strategic shift that every PMM should hear:
* Start simple.
* Don’t start with a paragraph. Start with a brick.
* Collaborate early.
* Ask sales and pre-sales: “Here’s how I want to say it. What do you think?”
* Speak like you care about their success.
* Because you genuinely do.
* Read messaging out loud.
* Not to admire it… but to audit it.
* Launch like NASA, not like a billboard.
* After launch-day, the work isn’t done. It’s just begun.
If you launch and stop talking about the product, who will remember it 9 months later when the buyer is actually ready? Not your beautiful deck. Your consistent and purposeful narrative will.
Launch is not the end. It’s the middle.
Final Thought
If you take one thing from this conversation, let it be this:
Product marketers don’t win because we execute more.We win because we question more.
We make strategy sound obvious.We make products sound human.We make teams sound aligned.And we make our work start conversations instead of ending them.
🎧 Here’s the full episode link:
📖 Stay updated on Doug’s book and his framework: https://sowhatwhywhocares.com/ waitlist
Get full access to The PMM Brief at pmmshruti.substack.com/subscribe

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