In this conversation, PJ Simmons and Benj explore the dual concepts of ‘Systems’ and ‘Soul’ in organizational leadership. Benj emphasizes the importance of balancing effective systems with a strong focus on people, highlighting how leadership is not just about managing tasks but also about self-leadership and personal development. They discuss the significance of clarity, autonomy, and results in fostering a productive work environment, as well as the common pitfalls organizations face when they neglect either systems or soul. The dialogue also touches on the challenges of career growth, the necessity of candid conversations, and the impact of personal experiences on organizational dynamics.