What if grief isn’t about letting go of the person you love—but learning how to experience your relationship with them differently?

In this deeply moving conversation, I’m joined by David J. Roberts, LMSW and Rev. Patty Furino, whose unlikely friendship began with a phone call, a computer glitch, and a double rainbow.

Dave is a retired addiction professional, educator, and grief and bereavement specialist who lost his 18-year-old daughter, Jeannine, to cancer in 2003. Patty is an Interfaith Minister who has spent decades helping people navigate difficult seasons of life through spirituality, intuition, and the wisdom found across different spiritual traditions.

When they first met in 2010, Dave approached life and grief largely through a science-based lens. Patty came from a deeply spiritual perspective.

Then something happened that began to change the way Dave understood his daughter’s death.

A rainbow.

And then another.

Their friendship became a 15-year exploration of grief, spirituality, signs, synchronicity, consciousness, and the possibility that our relationships with the people we love can continue even after physical death.

In this episode, we talk about:

• How Dave’s experience of losing his daughter changed his understanding of grief
• The double rainbow that became one of the first signs he associated with Jeannine
• How Dave and Patty first met—and the remarkable circumstances surrounding their meeting
• What happened when Patty told Dave that she believed his daughter was communicating with him
• How a science-based mind can make room for spiritual experiences without abandoning critical thinking
• Why Dave believes science and spirituality don’t necessarily have to compete
• The idea of continuing bonds and maintaining a relationship with someone after their physical death
• How signs can appear through numbers, animals, music, rainbows, and unexpected moments
• Why being open to a new perspective doesn’t mean abandoning discernment
• How spiritual exploration helped Dave find forgiveness and healing within his family relationships
• The importance of community when we’re grieving
• What their friendship has taught them about unconditional love
• Why sometimes love means holding someone’s hand—and sometimes it means letting them go

One of the things I love most about Dave and Patty’s story is that neither of them had to become the other.

Dave didn’t have to stop being the scientist.

Patty didn’t have to stop being the spiritual teacher.

Instead, they became curious about one another’s way of seeing the world.

And somewhere in that space between science and spirituality, grief and love, questioning and believing, something beautiful happened.

They became family.

A question to carry with you

• Have you ever experienced something you couldn’t quite explain—but couldn’t quite dismiss either?

Maybe it was a song at exactly the right moment. A number you kept seeing. A dream. A familiar scent. An animal appearing at an unusual time. Or perhaps a rainbow that seemed to arrive when you needed it most.

What if, instead of immediately deciding what these experiences mean, we simply became willing to notice them?

Because sometimes the first step isn’t finding an answer.

It’s becoming curious enough to ask the question.

Meet Dave Roberts

David J. Roberts, LMSW, is a retired addiction professional and adjunct professor who has taught psychology and death, dying, and bereavement. After the death of his daughter Jeannine at age 18, Dave began exploring grief, meaning, spirituality, and the survival of consciousness. He has presented at national and regional grief conferences and contributed to publications including HuffPost, Medium, Open to Hope, Mindfulness and Grief, Thrive Global, and Recovering the Self Journal.

Meet Rev. Patty Furino

Rev. Patty Furino is an Interfaith Minister who has spent decades exploring spiritual traditions and helping people navigate challenging times. Her ministry centers on meeting people where they are, offering hope, bearing witness to their stories, and empowering people to discover their own unique spiritual paths.

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