Former FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss joins Travis to unpack how he went from being “eminently unqualified” to negotiating life-or-death situations at Chase Manhattan Bank and beyond. He shares the moment a team leader told him to volunteer on a suicide hotline—advice she gave to 1,000 people but only two ever acted on—and how that single decision opened the door to a 24-year FBI career. Chris walks through the Chase Manhattan Bank robbery in Brooklyn, where he coached a crafty bank robber into surrendering, only to have the doors accidentally locked from the outside while SWAT moved in behind ballistic shields. He explains why “yes” always creates anxiety, why saying “I understand” is weaponization, and how mirroring 1-3 words can get anyone talking involuntarily. This conversation is a candid look at tactical empathy, engineering serendipity, and how negotiation skills apply to everything from business deals to ordering Cheesecake Factory with your girlfriend.

ON THIS EPISODE, WE CHAT ABOUT:

— How Chris Voss went from SWAT team aspirations to FBI hostage negotiator after re-injuring his knee.

— The “eminently unqualified” conversation with Amy and why only 2 out of 1,000 people took her suicide hotline advice.

— What really happened during the Chase Manhattan Bank hostage situation in Brooklyn and the “Where’s Chris?” moment.

— Why “yes” creates anxiety and going for “no” makes people feel safe and in control.

— The difference between tactical empathy and saying “I understand”—and why one builds trust while the other is weaponization.

— How mirroring works: repeating 1-3 words with curiosity or comprehension to pull information out of people involuntarily.

— The power of silence in negotiation and why Travis’s 1-minute pause closed a high-ticket deal.

— “Engineering serendipity”—how to position yourself in the path of luck by taking action others won’t.

TOP 5 TAKEAWAYS

Competitive advantage comes from doing what others won’t—1,000 people got advice to volunteer on a suicide hotline, only 2 did it.

“Yes” creates anxiety; “no” makes people feel safe. Go for “no” to give the other side control and lower their defenses.

Tactical empathy isn’t agreement—it’s demonstrating comprehension of where someone’s coming from without liking it or agreeing with it.

Mirroring (repeating 1-3 words) gets people talking involuntarily and makes them feel heard without you having to solve anything.

Never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn’t take something better—focus on outcomes can blind you to superior alternatives.

**Join the Black Swan Community with Chris Today!**

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