Until now, every True Bill Talk episode has gone deep on policy, current events, or the story behind an elected prosecutor’s career. This one goes inside the courtroom and takes a close look at jury selection — one of the most consequential and least-examined moments in a trial.

Today’s guests are Prof. Nancy Marder (Chicago-Kent College of Law), one of the country’s leading scholars on the jury, and Prof. Adam Shlahet (Fordham Law School), an experienced trial attorney who has practiced on both the prosecution and defense side. Together, they get into what the system asks lawyers to do — make high-stakes decisions about complete strangers based on minimal information, in a matter of minutes.

Adam flips the conventional wisdom, making the case that jury selection isn’t about finding the ideal juror — it’s really about identifying the one who will tank your case and getting rid of them. And Nancy points out that many of those who might appear to be biased when entering the courtroom will be transformed during jury selection and other stages of the jury process so that they will be able to deliberate without bias. She also pushes back on the advice that often gets passed down to junior attorneys, pointing to research that shows that generally there is no reliable correlation between a juror’s demographics and how they actually deliberate. And yet the system itself — with its time pressure and limited information — structurally invites the kind of snap judgments we’re supposed to be avoiding.