Forget fighting the climate. Paul Hawken argues we are part of it—and that single shift can change how leaders, teams, and communities act. We bring Paul into a candid conversation about language, agency, and the practical levers businesses can pull right now to lower risk, save money, and grow life.

Paul Hawken has shaped how business leaders approach climate action for over 60 years. ”The Ecology of Commerce” inspired, amongst many, Ray Anderson's transformation of Interface. Drawdown became the definitive roadmap for climate solutions. Now Carbon calls for a shift from fighting carbon to fostering life.

In this episode, we go deep on:

• Why ”fighting carbon” and ”net zero” might be the wrong frame entirely
• The incredible story of meeting Walmart executives in a closed basement for 5 hours – and writing the speech that transformed the company
• What actually changes leaders and CEOs mind's on climate and social justice

Enjoy the episode, share it with your team, and leave a review to tell us which term you’re retiring first! 

PAUL HAWKEN'S BOOKS

Carbon: The Book of Life (2025) https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/670480/carbon-by-paul-hawken/

Regeneration: Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation (2021)

Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming (2017)

Blessed Unrest: How the Largest Social Movement in History Is Restoring Grace, Justice, and Beauty to the World (2007)

Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution (1999) Co-authored with Amory Lovins and Hunter Lovins

The Ecology of Commerce: A Declaration of Sustainability (1993) 

PAUL HAWKEN'S PROJECTS

Project Drawdownhttps://drawdown.org/
Project Regenerationhttps://regeneration.org/
Paul Hawken's Websitehttps://paulhawken.com/

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Beyond Zero (Documentary)https://beyondzerofilm.com/
Interface – Our Sustainability Storyhttps://www.interface.com/US/en-US/sustainability/our-history
Ray C. Anderson Foundationhttps://www.raycandersonfoundation.org/Lee Scott's Walmart Speech (October 2005) – ”Twenty-First Century Leadership” 

PEOPLE REFERENCED

Ray Anderson – Late founder and CEO of Interface
Damon Gameau – Australian filmmaker (2040, Regeneration)
Lee Scott – Former CEO of Walmart
Doug McMillon – Current CEO of Walmart
Jib Ellison – Founder of Blu Skye Sustainability Consulting
Toby Kiers – Researcher on mycorrhizal networks and fungal communication
Andrew Adamatzky – Royal Society researcher on fungal communication patterns
Tiokasin Ghosthorse – Lakota elder
Dana Meadows – Systems thinker and author

Your Hosts:
Dan Leverington
Loreto Gutierrez

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