In this powerful episode of the “Dad and Daughter Connection” podcast, host Dr. Christopher Lewis welcomes Adam Angel, father, therapist, and founder of the Dads with Wisdom community. Together, they explore what it really means to show up for your daughter—not just as a parent but as a vulnerable, intentional human being.

A recurring theme in their conversation is intentionality. Adam Angel shares touching stories about helping his daughter face challenges, like her anxiety before a swim test and building confidence in new activities like basketball and jiu jitsu. Instead of forcing outcomes, he strives to give her the safety and encouragement to try, fail, and choose for herself. As Adam Angel reveals, “I want you to see what it could look like…I’ll show you, and you can tell me if you want to do it after you try.”

The episode delves deeply into supporting your child through difficult moments, embracing open conversations about emotions, and being honest with your kids about your own struggles. Adam Angel reflects on the need for dads to be “open-hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but to be able to learn from her, and also grieve or struggle through something with her.” These moments of honesty, he suggests, build trust and teach kids about resilience and empathy.

Another core lesson: connection isn’t always about grand gestures; it’s often found in the consistent, day-to-day presence—whether it’s attending basketball games, settling in for bedtime, or making one-on-one smoothie dates. Adam Angel emphasizes that just “showing up and being there” in both small and big ways tells your daughter she can count on you.

This episode doesn’t shy away from tough realities, either—like how admitting mistakes and apologizing as a parent strengthens bonds, or the challenges of allowing your child independence in a world that sometimes feels unsafe.

Lastly, the conversation highlights the importance of community and vulnerability for dads. Through his Dads with Wisdom groups, Adam Angel sees firsthand the transformative impact of men supporting each other, breaking cycles of isolation, and learning together.

If you’re a dad—or anyone invested in raising confident, emotionally healthy daughters—this episode offers a wealth of practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement. Listen now and be inspired to connect more deeply, both with your child and yourself.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]: Welcome to the dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and the dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have an opportunity to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:03]: I love being able to have you here every week because it is an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for you and I to be able to learn and grow together. You know, I’ve got two daughters, you have daughters, and you’re here. And I applaud you for that. Because by showing up, that’s saying something. Because that means that you do want to create a stronger, more lasting relationship with your daughter. And that’s why this podcast is here. This podcast is here to help you, to give you some tips, some tricks, some tools for your toolbox to help you to be that dad that you want to be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:37]: I love being able to introduce you to different people, different people with different experiences that can give you some help along the way, give you some perspective about things that might have worked, maybe they didn’t work, but it will help you to be able to frame how do you want to show up for your daughter. So I am really excited because we are having a brand new guest here today. Adam angel is with us. And Adam is a father of two. He’s got a. He’s got a son and a daughter, and we’re going to be talking about his daughter, of course, but we’re also going to be talking about a community that he has been building over a number of years called Dads With Wisdom. And it’s an. It’s a community that you might want to check out yourself, so we’ll learn a little bit more about that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:22]: Adam, thanks so much for being here today.

Adam Angel [00:02:24]: Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:25]: I’m really excited to be able to have you. And for full transparency to everyone. Adam has been on a previous podcast with me. So my old in my past podcast, the Dads with Daughters podcast, Adam was on four years ago, so we’re moving forward in time. And now his daughter is nine years old. And I’m really excited to be able to delve a little bit deeper into what’s happened over those years and what’s happened up till now. And I guess to start off today, one question that I, Adam, is, as you think about the relationship with your daughter, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve shared with your daughter and what made it so special?

Adam Angel [00:03:02]: One of the most meaningful moments was when she was trying to pass the swim test right before the swim team. This was after we last talked. And I think in terms of being more active and trying to find a thing that she could do physically, that wasn’t something that came automatically to her. There was a lot of anxiety around sort of that or idea that it wasn’t good for her, meaning, like, didn’t fit her. And so really what I was navigating on my end was trying to figure out how much to push and how much to support and sort of leave it to her. And this was like a moment I’ll never forget, because as we had been doing swimming classes, I could see that she was, you know, getting some confidence, and she had. We ended up with this wonderful teacher who I started the training, and then I could see that she needed something from someone else and that had been really good and progressed. And then there was this moment where she wanted to pass a swim test and was really afraid.

Adam Angel [00:03:56]: And we had set up the swim tester. You know, there was like, some date to do it, and if you passed that, then you had a chance at the swim team, which she could. I could definitely tell she was interested in, she expressed interest in. So anyway, so we’re driving there, and she started to get nervous, and she said, I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to do a swim test. And I said, you don’t have to do it. We’re already in the car. We’re already halfway there.

Adam Angel [00:04:21]: You’re in your swimsuit. Let’s go there. We’ll be there. We’ll stand there. And if. If you don’t want to do it when you get there, we don’t have to do it, but I want to just go. And she said she agreed. She didn’t really say much, but she didn’t protest.

Adam Angel [00:04:32]: And she can protest. She doesn’t have a problem with that. So we get there, and at the pool, we’re Standing there and she. They call for kids her age and she looks over and she’s about to say something to me. I see her shed one or two tears and I said, I just looked at her, I’m like, you good? And she just kind of nodded and she would just jump right in. And then she passed the test, which was just awesome. And honestly, right after she passed the test, she just jumped in, like with her friends, and then she started playing the rest of the afternoon in the pool. It was just like a lot of relief on both sides, I think, for both of us.

Adam Angel [00:05:09]: And I was just appreciating what I took from that. And by the way, she. So she joined the swim team, and then the next summer she was on the swim team as well. And then she did during the year. So just seeing how this progressed. And I’m happy to share more about that, but that moment for me was a lesson for myself on how much to push, to not want it for anything, but for her, but also to not let her sort of go in the house, you know what I mean? And just not see what she might be missing. So, like, you know, here’s what it could be. I don’t need to push you any further than this.

Adam Angel [00:05:39]: And it was a, it was a great moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:41]: Now you just talked about the fact about pushing and trying to help your daughter to be able to achieve kind of those, those passions, those dreams that she has for herself, the things that she wants to accomplish. Talk to me about how you go about that support and what do you do to be able to support your daughter in pursuing those passions and dreams.

Adam Angel [00:06:02]: What I’ve come to understand is like, I can help her through some low level skill building, meaning, like, you know, she wants to join something more serious. We’re going to give her that opportunity, structure. But first I need to support her in understanding that everyone has fear, everyone has these barriers. And then I show her how this has happened to me and I support her in getting her in front of these situations. Like, like an example was the pool. But later she. She ended up trying basketball and she ended up loving it. But the reason she loved it is she ended up doing a summer camp for a week, which was really high intensity, which I was a little worried that could send her the other way.

Adam Angel [00:06:44]: But I always give her the opportunity to say, like, hey, like, you can try this and you could step away from it, but I want to just show you what it looks like, you know, what it could look like. My dad used to say to me, better to Be the tail of the lion than the head of the wolves. And I’ve shared that with my kids and they both like it. They enjoy that. They notice that. And last week was the first week that she. And I’ll tell you how that came about, but she decided she wanted to try jiu jitsu and so she did it and she enjoyed it. Whether she stayed with it or not, I’m not sure.

Adam Angel [00:07:12]: But she stayed with basketball and she loves her neighborhood basketball team now too. So just to think of her last time we talked when she was 5, doing these different activities and just building this kind of confidence in ourself is just quite a progression. And I think ultimately it was, this is what it looks like. I’m here to support you through it. This is what it could look like at the very basic level. I’ll show you and you could tell me if you want to do it after you try it or even in the middle. If you want to give up, that’s okay. But I want you to see.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:41]: I love the intention that you’re giving to that. And I guess one of the things that comes to mind are thinking about the intentional ways in which you’re working with your daughter and helping her to be able to not only see you as a real person and understand your background and what made you who you are, but also helping her through those, those fears, those anxieties and more. Talk to me more about some of those intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times. Because we all know that it’s not always easy, but there are challenging times too.

Adam Angel [00:08:17]: So right around Covid hit, this was a really hard obviously for so many people. And we. She was four and she was three and a half and. Or three and a few months. And my son was just being born, which was crazy, 10 days in. And that was really hard moment. And I think of it as maybe the hardest moment for her and having to not let her go back to her pre K which was such a great place and so like everything from there and before that. But I’ve just like understood that, you know, there is just when you can’t do something, you have to grieve with your kids sometimes.

Adam Angel [00:08:51]: And at that time I think I was just not equipped with the level of connection to myself and open heartedness for my own grief of what was happening. And I remember she held for a little bit a lot of shame at that time because I was like, you can’t go to school. And she was like basically telling Me, oh, I’m going to school. I mean, she fought me like it was the. I was the worst thing in the world and I was breaking my heart. I remember she, I think she bit me like that. She had never bitten me before, but she felt like that was very bad about that. But I told her, like, that’s what, first of all, that’s what, you know, she.

Adam Angel [00:09:23]: Even years later, that’s what kids do and we work through it. And I wasn’t shaming her for that. And at some point, you know, sort of as she got older, she and many kids, you know, can hold shame around what they do or how they feel and so on, and just making it more and more open by having these conversations, especially while driving at night in these moments of like, intimacy and just being honest about how it was hard for me and what was hard for me and how I’m open to whatever is going on for her. And so it’s been wonderful to sort of be able to be that person for her. And I’ve grown and learned so much from her about my necessity of being open hearted and willing to not just be wrong, but just like be able to learn from her, but also to grieve, as I said, with her or struggle through something with her. And I think that honesty, you know, doesn’t mean that I’m giving up my authority and my, you know, being able to tell her, hey, this is what we need to do. Sometimes it just means that there’s a softness that’s available to her.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:24]: And your daughter’s getting older, not yet a preteen. We’re getting close into those tween years. How have you found that you are balancing guiding your daughter while still giving her that independence to grow into the person that she’s becoming?

Adam Angel [00:10:39]: I had a moment where my wife and I keep having this conversation over and over. Like, there’s some friends that have phones and then I’ve told her she’s not having a phone and I’m not giving her any data when she will. Like, it’s just not on the table and I’ve told her why. And then at one point she was really, you know, pushing and I said, okay, I’m gonna explain again. And I gave her like in depth about how this either essentially she’s could be connected to many things that actually might scare her that people that I don’t know, there’s no checks and so on. And you know, that’s a bit high, high level for a nine year old. But she understood to some degree and Then that same day I said, you know, I wanted me and my wife and I talking about it, but I just decided to go for it because I wasn’t necessarily comfortable with it. But I was thinking this is the opposite way, to provide some opportunity for her to have freedom.

Adam Angel [00:11:32]: And I sent her out with her brother without us on bikes. So he’s six, she’s nine. And I feel that she’s much more, even much more responsible, more than she already is, especially when he’s around and she’s in charge. I think that’s useful. Then it’s just like, guys go. And she like looked at me like, are you serious? And I’m like, I was like, this is the way that you can go and explore as opposed to on the phone. And I’m not going to come with you. I’ll be, I’ll be out there in 30 minutes or something.

Adam Angel [00:11:58]: And I told her the perimeter, which was about a mile, we have like a park not too far from us, like a, both a school park and a community park. It’s a good amount of green, plus sidewalks. You know, she doesn’t have to cross many streets at all. And I said, told her she knows the route. Go, that’s where you can go. And I went out there 30 minutes later when my wife was like, can you go right? And I’m like, okay. And when I went out there and they were fine, they were fine. But I just like trying to juxtapose those two for her and for me, because it was hard, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s worrisome, but it was fine.

Adam Angel [00:12:31]: It was totally fine. And I hope that it will continue to be fine when I send her out every day. So to kind of trust the people that we put her in hands, including

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:39]: her own, you know, that brings up so much. I mean, and I think back to my own childhood and the way in which I was really a free range child in the sense that in my generation, I think our parents were like, yeah, go outside, go and come back. You need to be back by this time and we’ll see you later. We didn’t have phones, we didn’t have any of that. But, but I think that there definitely is a difference in the way in which we are. There’s a fear in a lot of parents to do that in the safety of our kids and, and whether we should be doing that. And there’s some reality to that as well. And I guess one thing that comes to mind as I hear you say that is that you’re providing your daughter with the ability for her to see that you trust her and that you are listening to her and that you want her to feel valued, heard, and also that you trust her to make good decisions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:32]: And I guess as you think about that, what are some of the things that you’re doing intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Adam Angel [00:13:40]: These are day to day things as opposed to like the big story. It’s like I thinking about having conversations about her friendships, little things, these conflicts that seemingly we would might say like what’s really this about this is not important or whatever but. But they’re very important. These are conversations about being enough, knowing that you’re, you’re okay to be different, to set it something as simple as she likes fashion set a trend as opposed to having to follow other people rebutting people or the boys in her class are like characterizing all girls in one way or mistreating her another classmate is so just hearing the story and being like, you know, that’s asking her how she feels about it, what maybe her frustration with it or and so on and then, and then pushing her to know that she’s okay regardless of others view of her, that it’s most important, it’s her own view. And that can seem trite, but it really is so central to her experience because that’s a lot of our hours of her day are with peers. And we make a point, my wife and I make a point of when we’re together, we’re together and like being connected, connected to them and like we do a lot of camping. So now she wears that and I bring that into the situation because I think that gives us space to be connected in a different way and have like her voice heard around different topics and just being with it and not so peer oriented because so much of her life can be because of school. And so like you know, it doesn’t mean they don’t do play dates.

Adam Angel [00:15:06]: There’d be plenty of that and so on, but just kind of coming back to it and helping her understand herself and how she really feels and so she can rebut other people’s ideas around her with her own.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:18]: I love that now none of us as dads are infallible. We’re humans, we make mistakes. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father and what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication?

Adam Angel [00:15:31]: Maybe it’s good to use the day to day so that it feels more normal for people that are hearing it. Because I think when there’s moments where I move to anger, you know, with either one of the kids and sometimes or misunderstand because I made a judgment and about what they were doing and so on, or how they were speaking or so and so forth, it’s like, essentially what I’m doing is the opposite of what I just talked about, which is that I’m not waiting to listen. I’m not seeing my daughter as. There’s an idea in, like, the psychotherapy world that we. That I, like, trained in, this is my. As my profession, that we can see others at times and different moments as objects in our life as opposed to subjects in our shared life. And I think essentially objectify her. I see her as like, okay, she’s just someone in my life, and I can just say or do what I please.

Adam Angel [00:16:19]: And like, it doesn’t. Again, doesn’t mean that I can’t have my authority of being okay, like, I’m the adult here. But it does mean that in those moments when I made mistakes and I think that they’re frequent enough and I can say, like, these moments, I just sort of like, this is how I. What I want to happen, and it’s not happening the way I want it to happen. And so how I characterize this, essentially, many times we have a parallel process between our kids and us. And like, in these moments, I’m like, I don’t want this. I want this to work this way. And she’s like, well, I want us to have this.

Adam Angel [00:16:49]: And essentially we’re both having an experience of wanting something and then not be able to get what we want and then having a tantrum of, like, loss around it. Right? Like, I want this. And really what we both need to do on some level, and us first being the adult, is to accept that this is. May not going to work the way we wanted it to. And that sucks maybe for us, depending on situation. And then we can be with their grief if it’s not working out for them either. Or maybe we’re able to accommodate a certain situation. But the point is, is that there are a number of these mistakes.

Adam Angel [00:17:21]: I don’t think it’s useful just say one big one. I think those happen frequent enough where I just like, oh, yeah, right. I just may not get what I want here. So. And then I maybe act out on my. My daughter by saying, you need to do this or you this. And maybe it comes out in anger. So.

Adam Angel [00:17:35]: And I have to come back and apologize and then say, like, I didn’t see you in that moment. Or that was hard for me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:40]: And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Adam Angel [00:17:44]: This is a do not say type of thing. Just showing up and being there. Basketball games, those are the more regular big moments. And then the other ones are like putting her to bed, getting her up in the morning, taking her to school. I think just like the regularity, the frequency, the explanations when you can’t, showing that you’ve been thinking about them, willingness to listen to them first, I think knowing when I’m going to be there for you, and so on. I think also, like, maybe moments with others where other people are objectifying your kids and you’re like, no, I’m on your side. And it doesn’t mean that. Again, like, I’m like, you need to be respectful of your teachers, for example.

Adam Angel [00:18:19]: But if the teacher is acting out on your kid in the sense that they’re not seeing them as a whole person and they’re just kind of treating them, again, like just whoever there will step in and have a conversation with them. But again, I’m also talking like a student conversation today. She may struggle with a particular class. And I ask her, like, is this. Is there anything in this that you could do for yourself to improve the situation? Because, like, it seems like maybe you could have done something here, but it doesn’t mean that you’re not wrong if you’re in your protest. And I got you, I’m on your side here, but, like, look at your side a little bit too. So I’m holding both lenses and. But I think she knows that I’m coming from a place ultimately that I have her back.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:01]: And what’s the tradition or routine that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Adam Angel [00:19:07]: There was a period of time that was quite hard when she was younger, where it was she. She went to a different school first. And I like, my funny story was that she’s like, went to a school and then she went into like, the public school. And it was really. She really struggled with it. And I said, I told her, like, if you want to go somewhere else, she said, what she said is, they don’t know how to teach. She’s like five telling me this, like, six weeks into her school. I’m like, oh, my God, this is crazy.

Adam Angel [00:19:39]: So then I’m like, but I think there’s. What she’s saying was, I don’t want to sit and do worksheets. That’s what she’s saying. I don’t blame her. So Anyway, we ended up trying a different school. But I told her, if you really want to do that, you have to go and do these like tours and stuff. And she did it. So we ended up going somewhere else.

Adam Angel [00:19:55]: But during that period of time, you know, at the other school, I started this tradition. I took off work on a particular day early. And so when I picked her up on Mondays, we would go just one on one and pick a place and have a smoothie or something. And then we don’t do that every week now like we did, but we do do something else now. For example, right now we’re Wednesdays, we go to Jiu Jitsu. Right? That’s what we’re going to do now. But before was did a practice a day that we did practice basketball one on one. And I do that with my son too.

Adam Angel [00:20:24]: Like just making that one on one time. And like, this is just for you, me and you connect. But especially when you realize it’s like a season for challenge. Like, more like this month has been really struggling. The intervention is almost always best. Intervention is one on one time and making sure they know that you’re putting them first.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:40]: So I mentioned the fact that you have a site called Dads with Wisdom. And one of the things that I wanted to kind of first start with is that not everybody knows what that is. They may never have heard of it. So bring me back to the beginning and talk to me about the inception of Dads with Wisdom and why did you decide that you needed something like Dads with Wisdom and that other dads needed something like Dads with Wisdom?

Adam Angel [00:21:07]: Yeah. So my son was born 10 days after Covid. We went home. The doctor said nobody can come and visit for like 60 days. We happen to live near our family on both sides. We were like, why did we do this? Now it’s like, this sucks. So we’re just all alone and just really struggling. I was in the nonprofit world before I went to private practice.

Adam Angel [00:21:25]: And that was a lot to. And it was there I kind of like decided that just like I’m gonna go and go leave my job and took some time to do it. But then I had more time with my son and that process. I was thinking, oh man, this has got to be a really hard time for fathers. And what came next is I reached out to a few people in my area, Washington, D.C. area, just like practitioners that are also private practice. Like anyone running a group for dads. And nobody was.

Adam Angel [00:21:51]: There was one person who was a woman who’s who ran at one time and, and I had a nice conversation with her about how she did that. Then I put out emails around it and I got like a ton of responses, but all of them from women, mostly practitioners and many wives asking for this to work. And I was like, okay, I’m not messaging this well or to the right audiences. So I spent some time, created this website and I got in touch with a local called the Breastfeeding center of Greater Washington. And it’s basically like they do classes for mostly moms and couples, but nothing for dads. And so I, you know, we had a good conversation about it. I essentially became like a partner affiliation and we started running them and then it filled up very quickly and I don’t charge that much for these group. And it’s 10 sessions.

Adam Angel [00:22:40]: I just read all I could read in terms of books and et cetera. And then I just created like this semi structured group where I like, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was like, I think this is like a little bit after this. I was talking to you about this not too much longer after. And what I was doing when I knew enough, what I didn’t know was like, what do men really want? Because I think they were telling me one thing and maybe they wanted something slightly different. But I was like, maybe more emphasizing the topics and such and like kind of like the educational sort of aspect. And then I, I think what really they wanted was a space to discuss this stuff. And it was good to have those topics and structure, but also really important to stay attuned to what they really were wanting that day.

Adam Angel [00:23:20]: And so what I’ve come to do is like those 10 sessions still exist. I still have those about three times a year. So that’s 30 weeks of the year. And these guys are basically getting more space before at the beginning and the end of these sessions to kind of just say what’s going on for them, but also getting some topic based discussion and also like if they want resources, different topics of new parenthood. These are all for fathers that are first time fathers and new kids. And maybe we meet one time in person now as well. The rest are virtual because I have guys coming from Baltimore all the way to like Virginia Beach. So those are the three areas of my licensing.

Adam Angel [00:23:58]: But you know, I even have guys sometimes come from outside of the area because this is not really therapy. This is not therapy. It’s like peer based support. So that’s what propelled me to do it and how it started. And now it’s like what surprised me with all These groups that are now actually what would be called psychotherapy groups. And I have multiple of these running and there’s six or so guys in each one and they love it. And I’m better at it than I was five years by a lot. I think a lot of it is my own internal growth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:27]: And then sometimes there’s a stigma to being in a group of individuals talking about things that make you vulnerable in that way. So for a dad who’s hesitant to join something that’s like this, what would you say to help him take that first step?

Adam Angel [00:24:41]: Well, first of all, I usually send them a podcast. Sometimes it’s the best way to get and just to receive it as opposed to having to read. I think normalization obviously is the biggest one. Right. It’s like we all go through this. It’s. And I think when having somebody else that’s going through the exact same thing or very similar at the exact same time is just worth so much. And that’s even before I add anything.

Adam Angel [00:25:04]: Right. It’s just that. And so just I always tell people like, hey, the kind of person that would be in this group is someone like you, who also is thinking, I don’t know if this works out for me. But I think this person’s committed to being a better father and a better partner maybe and a better. And so on. So that’s who’s going to be there. And when you go there, it’s got its own process. So you don’t have to jump right in.

Adam Angel [00:25:25]: You may. And many times these people do. And so it really depends on the kind of group. But I think that’s why I like talk to people for like 15 minutes before trying to maybe longer, 20 minutes, 30 minutes just to see like, what do you really want here? And people have come and gone in the groups and actually gone to different groups. So like I do like an hour for right before birth for free for people if they want to just like think about how they’re feeling and like prepare for what will happen at the birth and then like the first days of postpartum experience. So like that’s like a free hour. Then people then tend to sign up for the 10 week new dads and then many times a little later, these, they’re men that just like, hey, I just want a more depth oriented conversation with other guys. And that’s the sort of dads 2.0 groups that we’re doing.

Adam Angel [00:26:07]: I’ve been creating some other groups as well, dads that have lost in like, you know, early infancy or in late pregnancy. I have group for them and also for them if they’re parenting after that loss and like, you know, so they can have a space for being which, which has its own unique thing things to it. So I would say to them like, they’re like you. And there’s, there’s this huge value in having that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:29]: There truly is value in that. And I think it is important to be able to put yourself out there and be able to. And I’ve said this before, to be vulnerable not only with other men, but with your kids in many different ways. I guess as you look at the groups that you’ve created, the ability for people to come together, what’s one story, and I’m not asking you to break confidentiality, that really captures the impact that you’ve seen for dads that have taken part in these groups.

Adam Angel [00:26:58]: This happened yesterday, I’m not kidding in this sweet group. This like conversation was just very. This is a dad’s 2.0 group and the dad was talking about one dad was basically struggling as newer to the group. I am not the preferred parent. It’s really hard for me. I’m not sure, you know, sort of essentially the level of I’m not at the level of connection I would like with my kids. And other guys were like, first of all, this is a normal pattern that goes up and down. Sometimes times you preferred, sometimes you’re not.

Adam Angel [00:27:25]: And this guy basically said like. I don’t think he was trying to speak about his, the impact, but I think it was obvious to me. He was like, basically in the last six months that he’s been in the group for about a year and some. And he said I’m the preferred person parent. And I used to get, you know, essentially like overwhelmed and dealing with my kids. And I would essentially, I don’t know his reactions to that, but ultimately now they come to me. They’re all over me all the time. And that’s hard, but it’s a lot better, it’s a lot different than it was where they didn’t know that I was kind of like that connection and depth of relationship just wasn’t where it is now.

Adam Angel [00:28:02]: So that’s one that just came to me off the top of my head. But I was just like, just appreciating how much he cares, how much he’s worked to be that for his kids. And that took a lot of reflection and self determination.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:17]: So one of the other things that comes to mind when I was thinking about this was when we’re talking about Vulnerability and men being willing to connect with other men. Why do you think it’s so hard for men to build authentic community and, and how does that impact their parenting or their ability to be the father that they want to be.

Adam Angel [00:28:39]: Yeah, actually that. To bring this up when in previous answer. So I appreciate you asking it because I think that’s also how I sometimes. So the group I said like, I mean, people tell me and you can tell me if it’s true. For years I’ll say to someone that they have close friends, but they still don’t have these kind of conversations they need to have where they can actually say what they’re really feeling around life, parenting and their experience as a husband after kids and so on and so forth. And usually the guys will not be like, yeah, I have close friends, or I don’t really have this kind of relationship with friends, but I still can’t have this conversation. And the guys will say like, especially when they’re leaving. And like, I have them like, kind of like just people like say really kind things to them as if someone’s leading a group or something and the dad’s 2.0.

Adam Angel [00:29:20]: And they’ll say something like that, like, like this has been a different place where I can actually say like, hey, you know, today I didn’t feel like wanting to be a parent. I just, I was mad about being a dad and I didn’t like it. I don’t want to be like. And that’s a really hard thing to say. If I say that somewhere else, someone’s going to judge me. And all the other guys in the group, like, not usually we know what you’re talking about. Because they also know that they’re committed. Just because they’re having a protest has nothing to do with their love.

Adam Angel [00:29:42]: Those two are not incongruent. And so just naming the frustration and difficulty has nothing to do with the level of care and knowing that the people around you are not going to judge you and know that that is what vulnerability is. I had this wonderful quote from my. One of my mentors in my training institute that I do on a regular basis. And he says there’s a difference between transparency and vulnerability, but only you will know it because it’s an internal experience. I can be transparent with you, Chris, and I can also, I can tell you about my life, but if I don’t feel the vulnerability, then it’s not vulnerable. And usually the vulnerability requires a little bit of worry that this could be harmful to me if you use this against. And that Fear that around that is like, that’s actually.

Adam Angel [00:30:29]: Well, we of course can explore it. But the bottom line is that’s a risk and you’re taking it. And you’re taking it. Your willingness to take it is its own bond between the guys. And everyone knows it when you’re doing it. You know it first and they know it usually second. And so that’s been something that I’ve actually said as a part of our conversations and times with the guys. And there’s a good response to that.

Adam Angel [00:30:51]: And they’re able to engage in another level of vulnerability. So I don’t know if I answered all the question if it was like why it’s hard. I think is like. I think the answer is that it’s scary and that we’ve been hurt in a lot of ways to taught not to do that. That’s the real world. Like. And you shouldn’t be vulnerable to every single person because it can be. There are people that have unfortunately not the best intentions but.

Adam Angel [00:31:12]: But there are plenty that you can. And you can navigate that by just by figuring it out as you go through the relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:18]: When I think some of that goes back to trauma in regards to what individuals have experienced in their own life. And there’s many men that have generational trauma or patterns that they experienced growing up. And I’m sure you’ve seen that in groups in different ways. How would you say that dads can begin to break those cycles for themselves?

Adam Angel [00:31:40]: Yeah, I mean this is my work. So like when I’m not doing groups, I’m doing individual therapy. And my focus of training has been in complex trauma. And what that really means essentially is we adjust ourselves as all people do. And even when we’re wonderful dads that we are, Chris, our kids, we’re not going to be perfect for them and therefore they will have to adjust. And there’s. It just is part of life. And that adjustment means that we’re going to create strategies to protect ourselves.

Adam Angel [00:32:03]: And we had to do that as kids. And so when I work with people individually and in the group, we notice what they’re really wanting for themselves, which is this intention that we’re going to state together. So for example, I would like to have greater self confidence or some state or experience in myself or maybe I want to have more capacity to be vulnerable. But that is where we’re coming from, from the adult side of what we want. Now when we are engaged in relationships, it’s very easy to fall into the strategies that worked for us at one point. Or at least attempted to work for us as a young person in a life where we don’t have any agency as a child, you don’t. Ultimately you’re worried about your, the people that care for you, caregivers and the culture around you. And it has rules.

Adam Angel [00:32:47]: And you realize those rules. You’re very quick to learn that as a kid until you keep yourself safe through this process. And those strategies, they need to be confronted and addressed. And the way that you do that is by sitting with someone else who cares and has, can support you. And when you do that, working out, for example, in therapy, you get something where you can notice with the person, deepen into the emotions of what has happened, but more importantly, what’s coming up for you now and how you might be allowing in these same things. And I see that allowing with a lot of compassion doesn’t mean we’re intentionally doing it, but allowing in old strategies which are determining things in your life you no longer want. And when you can be that with that, with that, in this kind of process, we can interrupt generational, cultural, all the things trauma that you’ve been through. And again, I’m using that word lightly because I know sometimes people talk about trauma, but it’s, it’s just your experiences or you were limited to what you could do and be and who you could be.

Adam Angel [00:33:47]: And we’re trying to just say if you want to be something else, you can, but you gotta address it and be with it. And you have to do it with someone who also has this and other people and in the group, other people that are committed to doing the same. So that that’s where the growth can happen.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:01]: Now if people want to find out more about dads with wisdom, where should they go?

Adam Angel [00:34:05]: Yeah, so website is dadswithwisdom.com and that’s where the groups are mostly. And if there’s anyone who’s experienced loss in parenting, you know, early life, you know, early pregnancy or late pregnancy loss, I do those groups too. But I keep that off the website and go to Adamodulotherapy.com for. That’s for the individual work and also therapy group. Because I just, it can be really intense for someone who’s lost to see those pictures of babies that are sort of on the Dads of Wisdom website. I also am doing a retreat in the fall. It’s the first time I’ve ever done that. And this is sort of listening.

Adam Angel [00:34:38]: I went to a men’s retreat myself, was profound and very thoughtful, pushed me further. And so I was like you know, I could do this. So I’m going to be doing something in the Shenandoah area and it’s going to be exciting. So that’s also happening now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:52]: I always finish our interviews with what I like to call our dad connection. 6. Six more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. Are you ready? I don’t know. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Adam Angel [00:35:04]: Maybe an easy one. Loving, caring, Something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:07]: What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Adam Angel [00:35:11]: I’m not sure if it’s the best, but it’s true. This too shall pass. It’ll change again. It’s okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:17]: What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Adam Angel [00:35:20]: Sometimes it’s just sitting and having a nice snack at this, like, particular place that we like, have like good little drinks and we just kind of like look out the window. We have a good conversation. So I think that’s one of the big ones. I think I mentioned other, other ones earlier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]: If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Adam Angel [00:35:38]: You’re enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:39]: What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Adam Angel [00:35:42]: I want to be silly with it and say I’m enough.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:46]: And what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Adam Angel [00:35:54]: I think what we’re talking about here is obviously don’t give up stuff. You’re going to be okay. All these things that we’re just mentioning. But you need, you need. If you want to be a rock, you need a mountain, you need and to sit on. And I think that’s. That’s the men that can support you. And so you doing it alone is.

Adam Angel [00:36:10]: It’s the start to do not really possible in the same way or it’s going to be really detrimental to do it. So you need to be the person that you want to be, the dad that you want to be. You need other men to support you. You’ll get where you want to be that way much easier.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:24]: Well, Adam, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today for the work that you’re doing with dads with wisdom and for sharing the journey that you’ve been on with your daughter up till now. It’s still keep going to keep going, and you’re going to keep learning and it’s going to be an amazing journey along the way. But I truly want to say thank you for being here and I wish you all the best.

Adam Angel [00:36:44]: Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:46]: That’s a wrap for this episode of the dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged, engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our [email protected] until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:37:17]: We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers we spend the time we give the lessons we make the meals we buy them presents and bring your A game Cause those kids are growing fast the time goes by by just like a dynamite blast Calling astronauts and firemen Carpenters and muscle men get out and be the world to them Be the best dad you can be Be the best dad you can be.