Welcome to Gettin’ Historical With It, a student-led podcast from the University of Toronto Mississauga. Host Nihal Naqvi is joined by co-host David Casazza and guest Professor Tong Lam. In this episode they unpack Professor Lam’s article “Policing the Imperial Nation: Sovereignty, International Law, and the Civilizing Mission in Late Qing China.”

Professor Lam explains how late-Qing policing reforms—imported from the West yet tailored to imperial needs helped dismantle the dynasty and set the stage for modern China. The conversation traces:

• The fall of the Qing and the 1911 Xinhai Revolution.

• How foreign powers, eager to expand their own influence, pressured China to adopt new legal and policing models.

• The birth of a U.S.-centred world order in the early 20th century—and how China’s leaders responded by redefining sovereignty and state power.

• Echoes of late-imperial policing in today’s People’s Republic, where a resurgent China positions itself as a counterweight to American dominance.

Together the hosts and Professor Lam explore the historical roots of today’s U.S.–China rivalry, the enduring impact of “states of exception,” and the possibilities for reimagining sovereignty in an era of shifting global power.