Everyone please welcome Jennifer Ledesma to A Broadway Body: Continued Conversations! Jennifer is an actor based in Chicago. She and I were auditioning in the Chicago theatrical market at the same time back in 2016-2018, and while we’d never booked the same show, we’d always see each other at auditions, in class, and in the community. (If you’re in the Chicagoland area, catch her in a show!)

In our conversation, we discuss…

* How prevalent it is for curvy and plus-size women to not be cast as the leading lady, love interest roles in musical theatre

* Being told to switch majors (away from musical theatre) in college, yet being one of the only working actors from her class

* The complexities of how our bodies and identities show up in the work that we do as actors

* Destigmatizing the BFA

* How Jennifer felt seeing a character breakdown that was meant for her, as a curvy, Latina actor

* How the “F” in BFA ultimately doesn’t matter

* Rediscovering the joy of dance through getting back into a movement practice that felt aligned for her and supportive of her strength and stamina goals

* The juxtaposition of knowing what you want to change about yourself and not hyper-fixating on them and viewing them as imperfections

* Embracing your curves instead of feeling shame for them

Our bodies and identities are so complex. Jennifer reminds us that so much of who we are impacts the work we do as artists. We discussed so many important topics, and Jennifer shared some incredible perspectives on an array of body image-related topics. I cannot wait for you to hear our conversation!

“ I think that just adds a whole other layer to the whole conversation that we’re having about body image and perspective, because I think that’s why I was also really powerful with seeing a show like “Real Women Have Curves” on Broadway. There’s not a lot of spaces were we’re celebrating plus-size women of color, specifically Latina plus-size women, in the industry, and just a specific space for that. It’s such an indescribable feeling, but I would love to see more shows like that representative of those communities and inviting in what makes us special or what makes us unique and inviting us to embrace all those “imperfections” rather than excluding us from an industry in spite of them.”

– Jennifer Ledesma

Megan Gill: Hi, Jennifer. Thanks for being with me today!

Jennifer Ledesma: Hi, Megan. I’m so excited that we’re finally doing this!

Megan Gill: Me too. I can’t wait to chat! Do you wanna just start by introducing yourself and then sharing a little bit about who you are in the work that you do in the world?

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah my name’s Jennifer Ledesma. My pronouns are she/her. I grew up in Southern California, around the Anaheim, Disneyland area, but now I live in Chicago. I got my Bachelor of Arts degree in Musical Theater, and that’s primarily what I do. I primarily focus on stage acting in the musical theater world. When I was younger, I was training both as a vocalist and as a dancer separately, and it wasn’t until high school, where I was kind of trying to decide which route I wanted to go as a performer, when I went off for college. And then I found theater very late in high school. But that just kind of seemed like, you know, the best place to combine my passions for both.

And then I also play a few instruments. So yeah, and then I ended up moving out here to Chicago for school. And I’m very thankful for that because I probably never would’ve considered Chicago as a place to pursue theater. But I fell in love with it, and I’ve been here ever since. So I’ve been here for over ten years now, which is kind of crazy to think about.

But yeah, I mostly do musical theater, but what I love about Chicago is that I feel it’s really easy to pursue different ventures of the performing arts. So, you know, still performing in film, TV, commercial work. I feel Chicago’s really encouraging of new work too. So a lot of work that I booked coming out of school was a lot of new work. So yeah, that’s a little bit about me in a nutshell.

Megan Gill: I love that, and that’s where we met. We met in Chicago in the theater world. It is such a lovely community and a special, special place to be an artist and to be a creative.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, and I feel with you and me, we’ve never worked together, but I feel we always ran into each other at auditions, and it was always so nice to see a friendly face. And I think that’s something that you really get the sense of in the Chicago theatre community. I feel everyone’s really, you know, advocating for each other as much as possible.

Megan Gill: I agree. It’s very unique and very lovely, and I miss it!

So, in light of what we’re here to chat about today, I’m wondering how your relationship to your body and body image influences how you show up as a performer in auditions, onstage, in these communal spaces.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, I feel that’s such a loaded question and a very complex question to think about, and that’s why I’m so glad that we’re having this conversation. You know, I spoke a little bit about my background. My primary art when I was a kid is I started taking dance classes at the age of five because I have asthma, so my mom wanted me to do something active that wasn’t sports related, so I wouldn’t be out with dirt or whatever. And so I’ve been a dancer from age five through now. And my relationship to my body as a dancer has always been really interesting because I don’t have a typical dancer body. I am a curvy Latino woman. My boobs came in way earlier than a lot of my other friends when I was growing up. And, you know, I would always hear comments when I was preparing for dance recitals of – you know, when they would be fitting costumes on me, and they would make jokes of, like, “Oh, you’re just, you know, a little bit more well-endowed than the other girls.” And you know, it was always light fun, but I think I was definitely conscious about it, and I feel like that definitely probably also had an influence on me knowing that if I did pursue dance over being a vocalist when I was a kid, I knew that I was gonna have a really hard time doing that as an adult just because I didn’t have a dancer body. And I think it has definitely transferred in my life as an actor now.

It’s hard because, you know, I feel, even with my family, my mom is my biggest cheerleader. She’s the most supportive person, but she’s also very conscious about it as well. And I think when I was growing up, she would try to make comments of, “Oh, I’m just trying to make these comments to protect you because I want you to succeed,” which I understand her perspective, but it’s hard because, you know, when you hear your own mother, making comments about your body and that kind of thing. And I think as a musical theater artist, there are definitely times when I do ask myself would I be considered for certain roles if I didn’t look the way that I did?

And I even had this conversation with my agent when he and I have sat down and had check-ins of, “Okay, what’s working? What’s not working?” Because there came a point in my career about a year ago where, you know, I was getting auditions but I wasn’t getting callbacks, or I was getting callbacks but I wasn’t booking the job, or my agent was submitting me for things and we weren’t getting auditions. So part of me wondered because I’ve always gotten comments from people throughout my career here in Chicago.

You know, I started off doing a lot of ensemble work and have kind of worked my way up getting more supporting, leading roles. And I’ll always encounter people who are like, “I didn’t know you could sing like that. Why haven’t we heard you sing more?” And I’ve always kind of wondered would I book more leading lady-type work if I didn’t look the way that I did, you know, if I wasn’t a curvy woman. Because I feel like, especially the musical theater industry, can lend itself really heavily into stereotypes. So being a curvier girl, I feel I’m always pushed towards the best friend type or the comedic type or, god forbid, I’ve been called in for so many, grandma, 40-year-old, 50-year-old-woman tracks, which even in college, they prepped me for that, which is just – it really can do a psyche on yourself because it’s like, “No, I know I’m a 20, 30-year-old woman, and I know I can sing these roles, so it’s disappointing that I’m not being given the chance just because I don’t fit a certain mold.

And so, going back to your question in terms of how I show up, I feel I try not to let it push me down in terms of what I want to go out for. But it’s hard because sometimes I feel like if I’m self-submitting myself for something, I question, okay, do I want to submit myself for the role I think I have the better chance of booking or the better chance of getting an audition for, or do I want to submit for the character that I resonate more with or that I know I could do really well?

I have a pretty wide range as a vocalist. And I have a very upper-soprano register of my voice that my voice teacher is very supportive with. And he’s always like, “I want more people to hear this lovely part of your voice.” But, you know, as a plus-size woman, I just – you know you don’t see a lot of plus-sized women play the Lauries in Oklahoma or the golden age girls. So, and even Gentleman’s Guide, the love interest.

And, you know, going back to the whole comment I made about how it can have an influence on your psyche, it’s like yeah, curvy girls never get to play the love interest or it’s not seen as the norm in musical theater. And it’s just disappointing because in real life we have love interests! We have blooming love lives!

Megan Gill: Yes, absolutely. It is so disappointing and so disheartening, and so, it’s interesting to hear your perspective now in 2025, specifically, because it’s like okay, how much progression are we making? “We” as a loose term for the music theater industry, whether in Chicago, in New York, on Broadway whatever it is, how many strides are we actually making in terms of not casting inside this outdated body type norm that’s just been the way that it’s been forever and ever amen. And I just appreciate you sharing your experience still coming up against these walls and still coming up against these blocks. And it just hurts my heart because you’re right. It absolutely should not be that way. And it’s hard that it’s still 2025, and we’re still having to fight the fight. You’re still having to show up and ask yourself, “Do I want to submit myself to the role that I wanna book and that could maybe bust a producer’s mind open to, yeah, why are we not casting this curvy woman in this role? Why the hell not? Why can’t we?”

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, and I do think the industry has grown where it’s being more acceptive of that now. I have gotten the chance to go in for a few characters. It’s just, I wish it was, I think, progressing quicker than I would want it to, or you still come across people in the industry that do have those outdated perceptions of, like, “No, this character should look this, or this character should look that.”

And I’m also very lucky to have a really supportive agent where, you know, just in conversations with my therapist where I’ve talked to her about my frustrations with, you know, not booking the job or not getting called in for certain roles. And she just kind of encouraged me to have a conversation with my agent about it and see. I think it would be really helpful to see if other people think that this struggle of yours is something that’s stopping you from getting jobs or if that’s something that’s in your head.

And I kind of just asked my agent point blank, “Do you think, you know, this is having any kind of blockage on my why I am not getting work?” And he was really supportive, and he was like, “I would hate to think that. I don’t think that’s the case.” And he’s like, “And also, if that is the case, those aren’t the type of people we want to work with to begin with.” But he was very encouraging and was just reminding me it only takes the specific team, the specific show, that one “yes.”

And this was kind of my win, because shortly after we had that conversation, I got an audition to go in for Real Women Have Curves on Broadway, and I ended up getting a callback, and I had to fly to New York for it, which that was my first Broadway callback, and it excited me because ever since I had heard about the show, you know, becoming a musical, moving to Broadway, seeing the character breakdown, I was like, oh, have to be involved with this show because this is one of the first times I’m seeing a character breakdown where it says, “Mexican, curvy woman,” and it’s all facets of ourselves, you know? So that was a really lovely thing to see, and that was a really just cool moment where, you know, I was feeling down on myself and my relationship with my body and how I show up in the industry. And to have the opportunity to go in for a show like that where my agent, you know, after it happened, he just tried to remind me, “See, I was just saying, it just takes the right team, the right, you know, show the right opportunity.” And he was just the most encouraging person about it.

So even though, you know, I did not end up booking Broadway, it was a really, really proud moment that I had in my career, and I’m disappointed that show didn’t continue on Broadway because I loved reading the material for it. I had gone in for it, like, every iteration that they did: the workshop, the pre-Broadway run, and then when it went to Broadway. So it was cool, and it was different characters every time, so it was cool to stick with it. Yeah, it was a really cool opportunity, and I’m really hoping that show has a regional life because it’s such a stunning show.

Megan Gill: Oh, I’m so bummed. I was in New York in April, and I really wanted to see it. I was there for work, and timing of the shows with work. It didn’t line up.

Congratulations! I’m so thrilled for you, and there are a couple things here that I think are so important. First is how wonderful your agent is. Thanks for just sharing all the ways that he’s been so supportive with you, because I think that that relationship is so, so vital and I’m so glad that your therapist encouraged you to have the open dialogue with him and to talk about it. Because now, hopefully, do you feel more comfortable continuing a thread of that similar conversation, if things come up for you or if you want to discuss that type of stuff?

Jennifer Ledesma: I think so, and I think just being aware about it. If that makes sense. And I think if anything, my relationship with my body and as a dancer – you know, still in college I was, you know, dancing almost every day, taking classes. And then that just kind of stopped when I graduated. And I had this long period of my life in adulthood where, you know, you can’t afford dance classes as much as you could when…

Megan Gill: It was free! Yeah.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, they’re expensive. So I kind of stopped training, and it was interesting too because in college I was kind of known as the dancer first. But I was really lucky that after I graduated college, a lot of the work I booked was off being more of a vocalist, being more of an actor first. And that kind of changed my perception of myself as well because I think it’s really easy for people to see you as one facet of yourself. “Oh, dancer first, you know, singer next,” or “I would define myself as a singer first, dancer second, or singer/mover,” you know, how we put all ourselves into these little categories or boxes. And in college, because of my dance background, I was just known as, “Oh, Jennifer’s a dancer primarily.”

And I’m really lucky that I have had the people in my life who have encouraged me or reminded me of, “No, you’re not just this one thing. There are other talents that you have that people should see.” So I’ve had the same voice teacher since college, my senior year of college, because he was the one that told me, “You’re a great dancer, but you’re also a really great vocalist.” I didn’t make my school’s – my school had two musical theater programs. We had the BFA track and then the regular BA track. I got into the school, but then I auditioned for the BFA track. I didn’t get in, and I was actually told by a professor, “You should switch your major.

Megan Gill: Like, away from performance?

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes, correct.

Megan Gill: Oh, my god.

Jennifer Ledesma: Well, and I know I’m not the only – which is just funny to think about because, you know, I was told that, and I know I’m not the only person he told that to. I know that there are other friends of mine who got similar comments when they auditioned for the BFA program. And it’s just funny to think about now because my other friend who I know this happened to, she’s now gone off to work for some of the biggest regional houses in America, and she’s in New York teaching at Broadway Dance Center, Steps on Broadway consistently. She has so many classes throughout the week that she teaches, and she’s a star. And it’s just crazy to think that, you know, she got similar comments to what I got. And now, after I graduated, I think I’m one of the only people from my class that is still working consistently even though I

Megan Gill: That’s amazing.

Jennifer Ledesma: – yeah, even though I didn’t make the BFA program. And I was really lucky that when I was a junior, senior, I had a lot of upperclassmen telling me it, “It really doesn’t matter when you go out into the real world. That’s just a letter.” I feel in the musical theater world, it’s such a big, “Ah, I graduated from this BFA program.” It’s such a prestigious thing. And I do really feel that has not limited me from, you know, booking work post-college.

Megan Gill: Yeah, absolutely. I feel that’s another one of those things that is so stigmatized when you’re in high school going into a program. Like, “Oh, you want the BFA.” But I agree, ultimately, at the end of the day, I really don’t think…

Jennifer Ledesma: Right! And I tried to follow the BFA courseload as much as I could even though I didn’t get into the program. The second thing is that the BFA program immediately got into showcase, and the BA kids had to audition for showcase. And even if we auditioned for showcase, we could only do a monologue or scene. We couldn’t do a song, which is foolish because you’re a musical theater major. You would want to sing for showcase. But, you know, going back to what I was talking about with, you know, post-college training, yeah, I stopped dancing consistently, and I really struggled to find a consistent workout plan that worked for me just because, you know, I was a dancer my whole life. So when I went to the gym, I didn’t know what to do. And I know for some people it’s really, you know, maybe easy to find a workout plan or get linked with a trainer or that kind of thing. And I think for me, there’s a certain type of stigma that curvy women feel in the gym or when working out and that kind of thing. And I would have to say that stopped me from really exploring any of that for a long time. And I would still go to dance calls, but If I had to choose between a dance call or a singer’s call, I would choose the singer’s call. And I knew that I could hold my own at a dance call but, you know, because I wasn’t training consistently, I wasn’t picking up routines as quickly as I could have. Or there were certain things of, like, “Oh, you’re not training, so your body’s gonna give out,” whether it’s stamina or technique, or that kind of thing.

So it wasn’t until a couple years ago I started dancing consistently again, and I really tried to approach it from not even dancing to train for my career but just dancing to find the joy of it again. And I started taking different classes outside of the dance world in terms of I started taking strength training classes. I started taking Pilates, and I really tried to view it as cross-training to support myself to have the stamina in shows to make it without, you know, my body giving out. Because there were a couple shows I’ve had to do physical therapy for just because my body wasn’t keeping up with the amount of dancing or running around that I had to do onstage. And I really wanted to approach taking classes again, not as a way to train, but just as a way to do it for myself, if that makes sense.

Megan Gill: Yeah, make it less about just doing it for your career and make it a more all encompassing act?

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes, and so, when I started going back to dance classes, I tried to go to dance studios that I knew theater people didn’t go to because I also didn’t want to feel like, “Oh, now I have to put on a show for people,” you know, because I think it is really easy to feel that when you’re taking class.

Megan Gill: Oh, for sure.

Jennifer Ledesma: And I feel now I’ve kind of – you know, it’s been a long journey. I’m still not where, you know, I would want to be, but I’m trying to have – now I, you know, go to dance classes, and I used to hate taping myself and then watching it back. The classes that I was going to, that was just the thing that people did when we were in combos at the end of the night, and so, I just started taping myself because sometimes then I would watch it back and be like, “Oh, actually that wasn’t that bad! I actually did a pretty good job. I actually maybe know what I’m doing!” And yeah, it was just a nice reminder of, yes, I did train as a dancer for 15 years, I do have this in my body. And I’ve had people tell me that, and I didn’t believe it or I didn’t see it because I think I was so just focused on the negatives, you know?

And so, it’s been really nice, in the past year, to just kind of find the joy in dancing again, do it for myself, take classes that are not also primarily rooted in musical theater style. So I take a hip-hop class here in Chicago that focuses on Chicago House Steps, and that’s very much not in the world of musical theater at all. But it’s just taking class just because I like the style and not because it could, you know, better me as a musical theater dancer. But I do feel like taking classes in different styles fundamentally just helps you explore different facets of yourself as a mover or as a dancer.

So yeah, in the past year, I’ve been focusing on that, and it’s been really lovely to kind of take the pressure off with going back into dance and finding the joy in that again and approaching it more so for myself and not for my career. And I just took a dance class last night. It was a new class to me. It was one that was recommended from a friend, so she took me. And it’s, you know, intimidating to step into new spaces, especially as a dancer, to take a new dance class when you can show up to the class and you see, “Oh, it’s a big group of people. They’re regulars. There’s a very consistent following. But it was such a joyful class. And at the end of class, the teacher came up to me, and she was you have so much joy when you dance. it’s so lovely to watch.

Megan Gill: Oh my gosh, what a compliment!

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, that was so, so nice to hear because, you know, taking a class, I found myself, “I’m in my head,” and I was just trying to remind myself, “You are here just to dance. There doesn’t need to be any pressure.” But felt myself – because we were also – it was a jazz class, and she was actually teaching a style that was more musical theater. So immediately I was like, “Ugh.” I felt my body stiff up like, “Okay, people know me as this musical theater girl. They’re gonna be expecting me to do this well.” But then I reminded myself, “Oh, it’s been so long since I’ve gone to do a more musical theater style because I’ve primarily been taking classes like jazz funk, or hip-hop, or ballet. So I had this moment where I was like, “No, this is in my wheelhouse. This is my style. I should just be able to enjoy this moment and not immediately critique myself because the only one judging me is myself.”

Megan Gill: Oh, my gosh, yes, one hundred percent. I just love this, especially growing up a dancer and starting from a very young age, because I also have an understanding of what that’s like. Because I started dancing when I was very young as well and continued all the way through college and thereafter, blah, blah, blah, the whole thing.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah.

Megan Gill: I haven’t taken a class in a minute, so I can relate with you on all of the feelings about walking into a room of a bunch of dancers being like, “All right! We’ll see what happens!” But what a beautiful reflection on where you are now in your relationship to how you’re showing up in the dance spaces that you’re in, in this place where, you know, there’s typically a mirror, and our bodies are doing the movement and executing the art form. And just to hear how your relationship has evolved to how you’re showing up in these spaces is beautiful, and I really appreciate you sharing that. And also, I feel there are so many important aspects of where you’re finding yourself now with taking the pressure off and just allowing yourself to show up with joy for yourself.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes. Yeah.

Megan Gill: Because you want to. And kind of trying to get outta your head and get out of your way in that sense is really, really hard work.

Jennifer Ledesma: No, but I love what you just also touched on. You know, yeah, when you go to a dance class, there is a mirror in front of you. And that’s something I’ve had to get out of my head about because, you know, most of the time may be the only curvy girl in the class, so how I look when I dance is gonna look different than how other girls look in the class. As a dancer, I still really struggle with floor work because, as a curvy girl, getting on the floor and getting off the floor is not a strong suit of mine, and I’ve just tried to have more confidence in myself or try to remind myself there’s nothing wrong when there is floor work that’s introduced. I just ask the teacher now, “Hey, do you have a modification for people who can’t do the floor work?” And most of the time those teachers are willing to give you something else, and it’s just not being afraid to ask the question.

Megan Gill: And advocate for yourself in that sense, too.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And reminding myself when I watch videos at the end of the day, “Okay, focus on how I’m dancing. Don’t focus on, you know, all the little critiques you have about your body.” But it’s definitely easier said than done. Before we started recording, we were talking about, you know, other conversations that you’ve had with other people, and there was a comment that was made by someone, I can’t remember who it was, but I really resonated with it when you posted it because they had spoken about how they were trying – it’s the juxtaposition of wanting to, you know, still embrace where your body was at and the beauty of your body and being confident in being a curvy woman but also not feeling shame for wanting to shift your body or change your body. Because I think that’s the way I’ve tried to approach my relationship to dance or fitness in the past year. I’m very proud to be a curvy woman. Are there things I want to change? Maybe, and I don’t want to feel shame for that, but I also want to embrace the body that I’m in. So it’s like how do those two meet each other?

Megan Gill: Right, which I think is just such a complex and nuanced thought, concept.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Megan Gill: There are so many layers there, right? But also I think it’s important to destigmatize how polarized they each can get.

Jennifer Ledesma: One hundred percent.

Megan Gill: And how we think, “Oh, well, either I’ve fully embraced my body and I am on body image healing journey and I’m trying to view my body through this neutral lens, or I’m over here wanting to change her.”

Jennifer Ledesma: Right.

Megan Gill: And, okay, it’s so normal to exist in the in-between or on some spectrum of that scale, and it’s normal for where you’re at, where we’re each individually on that spectrum just to move around and shift as we grow in our lives too. It’s not always going to be the same. And I think it’s also only normal in our culture, in our society for us to want to change something about our bodies.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes.

Megan Gill: We are conditioned and taught our whole entire lives. I feel like the question I see time and time again is, “What do you dislike about your body? If you could change one thing about your body, what would it be?” And I’m almost so tired of this – I know it’s coming from a place of trying to, you know, display that so many women are conditioned to dislike our bodies and certain things about ourselves. But I’m also like, “Okay, let’s quiet that question and maybe ask a different question,” you know?

Jennifer Ledesma: Right. Why can’t we ask women, “What’s your favorite part about your body?” You know, instead of asking what we’d want to change. But I definitely hear it.

Megan Gill: Yes!

Jennifer Ledesma: And especially in the musical theater world, you know, a few years ago I had never thought about plastic surgery, Botox, you know, that kind of thing. And I did a contract out of town where just girls in my cast, you know, they had done that, and they were just kind of telling me, “Oh, you know, yeah, when you start it in your late twenties, early thirties, that’s better to keep up maintenance.” And it had me thinking, “Okay, I don’t feel any shame for wanting to explore that,” because also your body is an instrument when you’re an actor, so you have to maintain your body, but then it’s this weird juxtaposition of, “Well, now that I know the things I’d want to maybe change if I did explore plastic surgery, it’s really hard to not see those “imperfections” when you are onstage. Because then, you know, I did a show this summer where there were so many photos taken. We were the only four onstage the whole show, and I found myself really critiquing myself because every photo that came out, I was like, “Ugh, I hate how my double chin looks. I really wish I had gotten something done before this show happened because now that’s all I can look at.” And it sucks because then there were other people, other girls in my cast where we’d take a photo or we were looking at the photos, and I was like, “Oh, I hate how I look in that photo.” And they were like, “You look great! What are you, what are you talking about? You look lovely.” And it’s hard not to sometimes see photos of yourself and only see those imperfections that you would want to shift.

Megan Gill: Oh my gosh. It’s so interesting that you’re bringing this up because, every other week that I share a conversation, I write a little blog post about something I’m dealing with pertaining to body image, something of the sorts. And the one that I published today was how I’m on a journey of trying to stop policing my body in photos, which is so difficult to do! It’s like you said. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And I know exactly what you mean when you say the things – now that I can see these little lines above my eyebrows, every time I look in the mirror or you know, not every time, but a lot of times when I look in the mirror or in a photos, it’s like I can’t not see those and wonder if I should change them.

Jennifer Ledesma: Right, or even, I don’t know if you struggle with this, but when I’m self-taping, I’m like, “Okay, I have to set up the camera a certain way so that it doesn’t get my double chin,” or “Ooh, gotta gotta put some more bronzer on because I’ve got to, you know, make sure there’s a line here,” and that kind of thing. And sometimes I’ll, you know, take a slate, and the only thing I’ll think about or see is, “Ugh, I hated that angle of my face. Got to redo it because I just don’t like the way I look there.”

Megan Gill: Yeah, and what’s sad about that is that we are then taking more of our precious time to redo and redo and to fix and fix and make it better and try to make it better when like – I don’t even know what I’m trying to say, but it sucks.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, well, it makes me think about, too, I’ve heard certain actors or just people who see theater, they make comments of like, “Oh, I love watching that performer because she wasn’t afraid to look ugly onstage when she was, you know, being funny,” or that kind of thing. And I find that when I’m onstage, that’s the only thing I can think about is, “Okay, have to make sure I’m – you know, I’m looking this way or I’m looking that way because I don’t want the audience to see, you know, this profile of myself because I hate this profile of myself.” And it becomes less about the work and more about, “Hmm, I don’t want people to see me a certain way.”

Megan Gill: Oh my god, which then keeps us constrained from being able to show our full, authentic selves through the art.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, I was on a show this summer and it was the first time I invited someone that I was dating to come see me in a show. And so, I was so nervous, but one of the biggest insecurities I have is, “My gosh, what if he sees me onstage and he’s not attracted to me.” And, you know, as a performer you should never think that. But I think also as a plus-size performer, that is also a struggle that I’ve encountered in shows is meeting costume designers who, you know, are not open to hearing what you’re not comfortable wearing onstage, or are not open to receiving feedback of, “Hey, I really love this mockup that you did. I’m not comfortable wearing, you know, tank tops. Can we put something with sleeves?” or that kind of thing. And that’s another facet of the industry I feel is hard, is kind of bracing yourself when you’re going to a fitting like, “Okay, I might have to try clothes on that don’t fit me,” and, you know, I feel like that can be a very vulnerable thing.

Megan Gill: Yeah, absolutely.

Jennifer Ledesma: And so, I was really lucky on the show I just worked on, it’s probably one of the most seamless costume fittings I’ve ever had. And I wore this beautiful peach 1950s dress, off the shoulders, and I felt like a princess when I put it on. It was probably one of my favorite things I’ve ever worn onstage. And I told the costume designer, “Thank you for finding something for me that made me feel so beautiful, because this is not the way I feel sometimes when I come into fittings.” And it was just nice that, first try, she found something that fit me, and it didn’t have to be this back and forth of not finding outfits that don’t fit you properly or don’t compliment your body or that kind of thing.

Megan Gill: Which is typically your experience in fittings?

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes, I would say so. I would say lately I’ve been really fortunate to work with costume designers that are really open to having conversations, but there have been a couple shows – yeah, there have been shows that I’ve worked on where it’s not the greatest experience, or when you’re trying to vocalize, you know, “Hey, I feel most confident when I’m wearing something this. It’s hard when it’s pushed back upon, or when you’re working with costume designers who think, “Oh, I’m working with a bigger body, so I just have to put bigger clothes on them,” clothes that are not fitting properly or baggy or that kind of thing. And it’s like, “No, I’m still confident in my body! I still want to show it off. You don’t have to just drown me in fabric.

Megan Gill: Right. Right, right, right. Oh, I’m so glad that you’ve had some good recent experiences, and I just appreciate you sharing the ups and the downs too, because I was getting emotional as you were talking about, on first go, feeling beautiful in your wardrobe, because also the wardrobe for us performing artists is what you are using your instrument in. So if you don’t feel confident, and if you don’t feel like you’re supported in the fitting and in that conversation where this person is dressing you, and they have a say of what you’re wearing, yeah, it can have a huge impact.

I’m really glad to hear that you’re having more and more positive experiences in those fittings and with those costume designers, because I think that’s also a place where a lot of this change can start as well. It’s with educators in college, in high school. It’s with casting directors being able to move away from this lens of, “Oh, we have to cast the ingenue in this type of body and the best friend in this type of body,” and it’s in the costume designers in being able to show up in a supportive way and being open to listening and to supporting the artists and making them feel their best too, so that they can go and do their best work onstage where you’re literally on blast in front of a freaking audience.

Jennifer Ledesma: And I think that’s something that people often forget is that it’s very vulnerable to be onstage putting your work or your heart out there. And how can you be expected to show up and be your best self if you don’t feel confident in what you’re put in to wear, or if you’re so self-conscious about how you look? I can’t imagine how anyone would be able to put their best work forward.

Megan Gill: I agree.

Jennifer Ledesma: yeah.

Megan Gill: Yeah. I do have a last question to ask you before we wrap up, but before I ask you, I’m curious to know if there’s anything else you want to share or bring to the conversation?

Jennifer Ledesma: It’s interesting because I was just thinking about this, and I feel this can be a very nuanced conversation, but I think also, you know, as we’re talking about stereotypes in musical theater. I, as a bigger gal, it’s interesting because one of my dream roles is Tracy and Hairspray. And it’s been interesting because I’ve heard from some people who are also plus-size girls, “Mm, I don’t think you’re big enough to play Tracy.” And it’s just this interesting feeling to feel like, “Okay, well I’m a size, you know, 20, 22. I don’t know how – it’s weird to see the numbers on the scale and then be told, “Mm, no. I don’t think you’re big enough.” So it’s like, “Okay, so where do I fit then if even other plus-size girls are telling meI’m not enough of this or I’m not enough of that?” So it’s this weird in-between space.

Megan Gill: What does that even mean? It’s almost like what does big enough even mean to you?

Jennifer Ledesma: Right, right.

Megan Gill: Or what does small enough even mean to you? And also why are we viewing it through these lenses?

Jennifer Ledesma: Exactly.

Megan Gill: Is it just because we always have?

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah. I feel that’s a harder conversation to dive into. But it’s definitely just, I don’t know, something I thought about because I feel like, in musical theater, because it does play so much on stereotypes, it’s like, “Okay, you’re either all of this or all of that, and there’s no room for nuance in between.” So, yeah, I don’t know. It’s just an interesting thing to play with.

Megan Gill: Yeah. No, thanks for sharing that, because I think also the beauty is moving towards that nuance, of course, right? That’s the hope is that we can continue as a theater community at large to move towards that nuance. But thanks for bringing that up.

So my last question for you is funny because you said it earlier, and I was like, “Ha, ha, ha! Do I tell her now that I’m gonna ask her later?” But what I’m trying to do, specifically in these conversations, is ask my guests what their favorite thing or things about their own body is, and it can be physical, it can be non-physical, it could be one of each, and I know I’m springing it on ya!

Jennifer Ledesma: No, I love it, and I’m glad that this is how you end your conversations because it’s, you know, what we just touched on – why aren’t we asking women enough about what they love about themselves rather than what they would want to change?

I love my smile. I feel I’m a very – I feel my natural thing to do is smile. And I’ve always been told by people that, “Oh, you have a really lovely smile!” It reminds me of the comment I got from that teacher yesterday of, “Oh, you have so much joy when you dance.” I just feel like, to my core, I’m a very joyful person, so I love my smile. I have a little space in between my teeth, a little chip in my tooth, and sometimes I’ve gone into the dentist and they’re like, “Oh, do you want us to fix that chip in your tooth?” And I’m like, “No, I love it! Leave my chip alone!”

Megan Gill: I love that!

Jennifer Ledesma: I love my legs. It’s easy to find the imperfections or whatever, but I think whenever I doubt if I’m a dancer or not, I feel like my legs are very representative of that, if that makes sense. I feel I have dancer calves from taking ballet. And I love my thighs. Thick thighs save lives. I love my thighs, and I’ve always been – this might deem into the sexual you know world or, or whatever –

Megan Gill: That’s okay!

Jennifer Ledesma: – but I love my boobs. I know that that is one of my greatest attributes as a woman. I don’t feel shame in showing them off. And yeah, it makes me feel confident when I, you know, put on an outfit and, you know, want to show off the girls and that kind of thing.

Megan Gill: Heck yeah! And what an important callback to when you were growing up in dance and. The moms or the teachers or whoever the adults were that were making comments about how you were more well-endowed. And you’re like, “Yeah! I love them!”

Jennifer Ledesma: Right, yeah, it was a thing to feel shameful for, but no, I’m pretty happy with them.

Megan Gill: Heck yeah!

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, and I think something that I haven’t touched on in this interview, or I’ve made comments throughout the conversation, but, especially as a plus-size Latina woman, I feel that’s a really easy way also to feel othered. Because when those comments were made, it was like, “Oh, yeah, you’re Latina. You have the Latina curves,” because those were physical attributes that were common in my family. It’s like, “Oh yeah, you’ve got the Ledesma curves or the Ledesma boobs, whatever, or the Guzman thighs,” whatever. I think it’s easy to pair the shame – I don’t know. I think it can be a very nuanced conversation or perspective of, I think the shame that I felt in my body when I was younger or even now, it’s easy to tie that in with my identity as a woman of color. And I think that just adds a whole other layer to the whole conversation that we’re having about body image and perspective, because I think that’s why I was also really powerful with seeing a show like Real Women Have Curves take placeon Broadway. There’s not a lot of spaces where we’re celebrating plus-size women of color, specifically Latina, plus-size women in the industry, and just a specific space for that, it’s such an indescribable feeling. But I would love to see more shows like that representative of those communities and inviting us in rather than – inviting what makes us special or what makes us unique, and inviting us to embrace all those “imperfections” rather than excluding us from an industry in spite of them, if that makes sense.

Megan Gill: Oh, absolute, yes, perfect sense. And I appreciate you going back to that piece of the conversation as well and for touching on that because I think that’s extremely important. So thank you for sharing.

Jennifer Ledesma: Thank you. And just, you know, also going back to, you know, the conversation that we were just having about not finding your place in an industry because you’re not skinny enough, you’re not fat enough, or that kind of thing. I think it’s going back to that, that word of enough. I think it’s very easy in this industry not to feel like enough of this, enough of that. I think even as a Latina woman, I don’t speak perfect Spanish. So sometimes I, you know, don’t feel enough of a Latina because my Spanish isn’t perfect and that kind of thing. And I think in the industry we work in, I think those things are just mag – extreme – I can’t find the specific word I want to find.

Megan Gill: Magnetized?

Jennifer Ledesma: There we go, yes, magnetized! Yes, thank you!

Megan Gill: Oh, gosh, what’s the word? I think it magnifies!

Jennifer Ledesma: No, it truly is both, I feel like! Yeah, it’s easy to just put a spotlight on all those things. And yeah, just that word of enough, I feel like it’s an ongoing loop. But I feel like I’m doing the most I can to push away that perception and embrace my body for what it is and kind of shut out the outside voices that will tell you you’re not enough, whether it’s other people or the perception that you have of yourself, that little voice in your head. But yeah, because I think we have to remind ourselves that the only one putting that feeling of not enough is ourselves at the end of the day. Yeah.

Megan Gill: Yeah. That’s such an important journey to go on, and I’m just so glad to hear that you are doing that work for yourself and working to take care of yourself in that way so that you can show up with all of the incredible things that you are and all of the incredible talents you have and do the work that you love to do and that you are dedicating your life to doing.

Jennifer Ledesma: Yes.

Megan Gill: It’s so, so important.

Jennifer Ledesma: Thank you! Honestly, I’ve loved all the conversations that we’ve had today. I was not sure where this conversation was gonna go, but it was also so nice to just ruminate on my past experience as a dancer, as I know that you can relate to that as well, and open up about all the complexities of how our bodies and identities can show up and the work that we do in the industry. Yeah, I feel like people sometimes don’t realize how much of ourselves either impacts the work that we do or impacts how we show up in spaces. So, yeah, this was really lovely.

Megan Gill: Absolutely. It really was. I am so lit up right now and so energized, and I appreciate you for being so vulnerable and sharing and talking with me today.

Jennifer Ledesma: Thank you! And I appreciate you just inviting me into this space and, you know, having this conversation with me. It feels great.

Megan Gill: Of course!

Jennifer Ledesma: Yeah, I feel like my cup is full.

Megan Gill: Well, thank you. I appreciate you for being here!

Jennifer Ledesma: Thank you!

“ I have a pretty wide range as a vocalist. And I have a very upper soprano register of my voice that my voice teacher is very supportive with. And he’s always like, “I want more people to hear this lovely part of your voice.” But as a plus-size woman, you don’t see a lot of plus-size women play the Lauries in “Oklahoma,” or the Golden Age girls, and even “Gentleman’s Guide,” the love interest. Going back to the whole comment I made about how it can have an influence on your psyche, it’s like, yeah, curvy girls never get to play the love interest, or it’s not seen as the norm, in musical theater. And it’s just disappointing because, in real life, we have love interests, we have blooming love lives.”

– Jennifer Ledesma

Jennifer Ledesma is a Mexican-American singer, actor, dancer, and musician currently based in Chicago. Favorite theatre credits include American Mariachi (TheatreSquared), The Marvelous Wonderettes (Oil Lamp Theatre), Shrek (Drury Lane Theatre), Spongebob the Musical and Grand Hotel (Kokandy Productions), West Side Story (Morris Performing Arts Center), Nunsense (Little Theatre on the Square), Same Same But Different (New York City Children’s Theatre), and The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Music Theatre Works). She was featured in Broadway In Your Backyard and New Faces Sing Broadway 1956 (Porchlight Music Theatre). Originally from California, Jennifer has a Bachelor of Arts in Musical Theatre from Columbia College Chicago and is represented by Big Mouth Talent. When she’s not performing, Jennifer loves dancing to new pop bops, reading romance novels with just a bit of spice, and watching too much reality television.

Stay updated with Jennifer:

www.instagram.com/jennifermarieledesma

www.jennifer-ledesma.com

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* It can be easy to feel alone on your journey of existing in a body. I welcome the connection and support of one another in this space through considerate and curious comments.

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While I’m not a licensed therapist, registered dietician, or medical health professional and cannot speak to body image topics from a clinical, trauma-informed place, I am an expert of lived experience. I’m an academic of my own body, and I’m passionate about facilitating conversations with other humans about their relationships with their bodies. I believe it’s important to continue conversations about healthy body image in creative spaces as a means to heal individuals as well as the collective whole. But just know the information presented in this medium is not professional mental health advice or medical advice, and any questions or concerns you have should always be directed to your health providers.

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