Is Coptic chant really 3,000 years old? Dr. Michael Henein set out to prove it — and his own experiment said no.Coptic Orthodox chant is often described as the last living echo of ancient Egyptian music, sung continuously since the time of the Pharaohs. Dr. Michael Henein decided to test that claim. With permission from the Cairo Museum, he had replicas made of ancient Egyptian flutes and asked a musician to play the responses of the Liturgy of St. Basil on them. The oldest flute produced exactly the scale the liturgy uses. It looked like proof — until he added a control group.In this conversation we go deep into how Coptic chant actually works: the maqam system underneath it, why the melodies function as icons rather than compositions, the century-long effort to notate an oral tradition that had never been written down, and what happened when thirteen shared Greek-texted responses were sung side by side by Coptic and Greek Orthodox cantors.Dr. Michael Henein is Professor of Cardiology at Imperial College London, the University of Siena, and the University of Nicosia; a sub-deacon at St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church, London; founder and director of the St. Kiril Coptic European Choir; and Executive Vice-Chancellor of the European Academy of Coptic Heritage.0:00 Every flute gave the same answer2:02 Meet Dr. Michael Henein2:39 From Handel's Messiah to a Coptic choir9:43 Greek words, Coptic melodies13:42 Why the whole congregation sings18:58 Instruments, the takht, and the liturgy20:39 Polyphony, Komitas, and hymns vs. songs28:41 Melody as icon: why nothing may change32:32 Inside the maqam: Huzam, Nahawand, and the ajnas40:45 Notating an oral tradition: Newlandsmith, Moftah, Tóth52:50 How old is Coptic chant, really?1:00:25 The flute experiment1:06:47 Which layers of the liturgy are oldest?1:10:46 Coptic and Greek: thirteen responses compared1:15:14 Ethiopian and Syriac parallels1:16:35 Cymbals, triangle, and rhythm1:20:12 What makes Coptic music unique1:27:04 Osama Fathi and the cadences that break the rules