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Laurence Norman has covered Iran’s nuclear program for the Wall Street Journal for over a decade, and for almost as long I’ve admired his pieces. He’s a Berlin-based journalist, measured and smart, not easy to fool, and (crucially) he knows what he doesn’t know — which is almost our entire topic of conversation in Episode 14. What did the US and Israel destroy in June? And what, if anything, did the attacks have to do with October 7?

We spoke on July 2, 2025, which is important because the story’s in constant motion. And because I’m on the road, there were audio issues: for a few minutes you can hear some nice Bach violin rehearsals in the background.

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Violin credit: Paul Festa

Resources:

All of Laurence’s pieces at the Wall Street Journal

Since our converation, IAEA inspectors have left Iran, which could change the calculus about a regional war.

A timeline of Iran’s nuclear program from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

More basics, and a map, from CNN

Some terms we didn’t explain during the interview:

The IAEA is the International Atomic Energy Agency, or “the UN’s Atomic Agency.”

NPT is the non-proliferation treaty which binds members to nuclear inspections by the IAEA.

JCPOA is the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or the inspections agreement that forged with Iran before Trump’s first term.

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