In this practical and uplifting solo episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, host Emma Burlow kicks off 2026 with a powerful reframe for sustainability professionals exhausted by negativity, what-aboutism, and constant battles over every small change.

Drawing on groundbreaking research published in Nature Food, Emma demonstrates how clever behind-the-scenes switches can deliver massive carbon reductions (30% in one study) without guilt, arguments, or removing anyone’s choices. This episode is essential listening for anyone tired of making sustainability harder than it needs to be.

Emma introduces research by Flynn et al. titled “Dish swap across a weekly menu can deliver health and sustainability gains” that proves something revolutionary: you do not need to start with the hardest stuff, fight people, or remove choice to achieve meaningful carbon reductions.

The researchers worked with a canteen serving 15 dishes across a five-day week, surveying diners’ preferences and identifying where high-carbon meat dishes competed with lower-carbon vegetarian options. The problem was simple: when people’s favourite vegetarian meal appeared on the same day as their favourite meat dish, they always chose the meat, meaning the vegetarian option never got selected.

The solution was brilliantly simple: reshuffle the menu. Using what they called an optimisation model, the researchers rearranged dishes so high-preference vegetarian meals no longer competed with high-preference meat meals. No recipes changed. No meat-free Mondays. No lectures. No signs. Just a smarter order.

The results were extraordinary: when the optimised menu rolled out, carbon footprint of meal choices dropped 30%, saturated fat dropped 6%, and crucially, no one complained or even noticed. This is what Emma calls “sustainability by stealth” or “Trojan mouse” approaches that deliver real impact without the exhausting battles.

Emma explains why this matters profoundly for sustainability professionals drowning in negativity. Whenever conversations begin about reducing meat consumption or increasing plant-based canteen options, polar reactions emerge: accusations of “banning meat,” claims of being a “Scrooge” after the consumerism-filled festive season, or walls of what-aboutism (what about wind turbine blades, range anxiety, plastic recycling rates).

This negativity is not just draining; it actively kills momentum, derails conversations, and leaves sustainability teams fighting uphill battles daily whilst making minimal progress.

The episode tackles why negativity is so prevalent in climate and sustainability conversations, particularly around politically sensitive topics like food, renewable energy, and flying.

Emma identifies three common negative patterns: what-aboutism (endless objections ignoring any reasons something might work), accusations that sustainability means “banning everything” or “penalising us,” and the exhausting cycle of needing to prove your case with facts whilst the other side throws up barriers. This approach misses the point entirely and more critically, stops all forward momentum.

Emma introduces the concept that people need to hear things seven times before they will buy them (a classic marketing principle). If those seven exposures are negative, negative, negative, the battle becomes exponentially harder.

The solution is not more facts, bigger business cases, or harder fights. The solution is reframing towards can-dos, easy wins, and low-friction changes that build momentum rather than requiring martyrdom. As Emma puts it: “Momentum beats martyrdom. We don’t all have to be martyrs. We don’t have to fight it all every day of the week.”

The dish swap research proves something powerful about human behaviour and organisational change. Once people experience success (seeing that changes worked without causing pain), they become far more receptive to the next thing and the next thing. You get much less fight when you have demonstrated friction-free wins.

This builds the momentum that sustainability transformations desperately need but rarely achieve when every change becomes a battlefield requiring enormous business cases and stakeholder management.

Emma provides practical guidance for anyone running schools, workplaces, hospitals, hotels, or events where food service operates. Start with the can-dos, the easy wins, the low-friction changes. Make those rock solid (you are not going back on them), then build.

Emma references the Carbon Literacy Project principle of “meeting people where they are,” urging listeners to find something to agree on, no matter how tiny. All the disagreement and negativity gets us nowhere; small agreements, shared values, and micro-actions create the foundation for larger transformations.

The episode offers specific strategies for handling the next wall of can’t-dos or what-aboutisms. Recognise it as distraction filling a gap. Keep talking. Ask why (referencing the Five Whys episode from early in the podcast).

Avoid using the word “sustainability” if that helps with your stealth approach (there is another episode on this topic). Find out what people value, meet them where they are, and agree on something. A tiny takeaway, an action, a shared value, or an agreement will get you more traction than a thousand arguments.

Emma issues a challenge for the first weeks of 2026: What can we agree on? No matter how small. This becomes your task. Convert conversations from can’t-dos to can-dos. Find the micro-agreement. Build from there.

She explicitly asks listeners to report back on “the most micro conversation that you have converted from a can’t do to a can do,” emphasising that these small wins are worth celebrating and sharing because they demonstrate what actually works in sustainability culture change.

The episode concludes with Emma’s call to “make life a little bit easier” by starting with can-dos, building momentum, and seeing what happens. She acknowledges fighting the can’t-do mindset for years herself, recognising it creates “a very angry and anxious and convobulated person.”

The alternative is choosing cleverness over constant combat, stealth over confrontation, and progress over perfection. Small changes add up. Friction removal creates momentum. And momentum, not martyrdom, drives transformation.

In this behaviour change and sustainability strategy episode, you’ll discover:

1. How menu reshuffling delivered 30% carbon reduction and 6% saturated fat reduction without anyone noticing
2. Why the dish swap research proves you do not need to remove choice to drive behaviour change
3. The three common negativity patterns killing sustainability momentum (what-aboutism, ban accusations, endless proof requirements)
4. Why “people need to hear things seven times” means negative exposure creates exponential barriers
5. How experiencing friction-free success makes people receptive to subsequent changes
6. The power of “sustainability by stealth” and “Trojan mouse” approaches in hostile environments
7. Why finding micro-agreements creates more traction than a thousand arguments
8. How to reframe from can’t-do to can-do in the most resistant conversations
9. The critical difference between momentum (sustainable progress) and martyrdom (burnout pathway)
10. Practical strategies for schools, workplaces, hospitals, hotels, and events to start with easy wins

Key Can-Do Mindset and Behaviour Change Insights:

(02:30) The negativity problem: “People need to hear things seven times before they’ll buy them. So what if they’re hearing negative, negative, negative… Negativity stops momentum dead.”

(06:57) The brilliant simplicity: “They surveyed 15 dishes on a five day week, and they looked at where the dishes were potentially competing with each other… They used an optimisation model to reshuffle the menu into a smarter order.”

(09:01) The dream results: “The carbon footprint overall of their meal choices dropped by 30%. Saturated fat also dropped by six percent. No one complained. No one noticed. Trojan mouse, sustainability by stealth.”

(09:56) Why it matters: “You don’t need to start with the hardest stuff… You don’t need to fight people, you don’t need to remove choice from people. You can make really meaningful carbon reductions by just focusing on small, achievable, often invisible, friction-free switches.”

(11:15) Momentum beats martyrdom: “Once people experience success, they see that it worked, it didn’t cause them any pain, they’re on board… You’ve got much less fight for the next thing. Momentum beats martyrdom.”

(12:15) Start with can-dos: “Start with the can-dos, the easy wins, the low friction, and then start to build… Start with the things you can do. Make those rock solid. You’re not going back on them, but start with the smallest thing you can do.”

(13:00) Meet them where they are: “Find something to agree on. All this disagreement and negativity is getting us nowhere. Find something teeny tiny, meet them where they are… Those small changes add up and then you get momentum because you’ve removed the friction.”

(13:15) Handle what-aboutism: “The next time you walk into a wall of what-aboutisms, it’s just distraction. That’s all it is… Let’s fill the gap with what we can do.”

(13:40) The micro-agreement task: “What can we agree on? No matter how small. A tiny takeaway, an action, a shared value, an agreement will get you more traction than a thousand arguments.”

(13:59) Personal transformation: “I fought this for years and it makes you a very angry and anxious person. So let’s make life a little bit easier. Start with the can-dos, build momentum and see what happens.”

2026 Challenge: What is the most micro conversation you can convert from a can’t-do to a can-do? Find one tiny agreement this week. Report back. Share your friction-free wins. Build momentum, not martyrdom.

Remember: a tiny takeaway, an action, a shared value, or an agreement will get you more traction than a thousand arguments. Start with the can-dos, make them rock solid, and watch what happens when you remove the friction that has been exhausting you for years.

Episode Research and Links:

1. Simon Clark on Instagram
2. Nudge By Richard H Thaler
3. Perfect Storm 1: 6 Elements & 5 Whys
4. Is Sustainability Really a Sacrifice?
5. Climate Change Is Everywhere: Why Sustainability Is Closer Than You Think
6. Red Flag Words and Sustainability Conversations: The Trojan Mouse Strategy

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