Eugenio de Zagottis is well known to the market by virtue of his long tenure as an executive at Raia Drogasil, the largest drugstore chain in Brazil. But by virtue of his unique position in the fourth generation of one of the founding families, he is able to put the evolution of the governance of the company into full context for us. We learn how a succession crisis in the 1970s shaped the way the family still approaches succession today, and explore how governance alone is not sufficient and needs to be married with the right culture to overcome the inevitable bumps in the road. Eugenio has recently transitioned to the board of the company and speaks to the difference between executive and non-executive director efficacy. He shares some of his thesis regarding Enjoei, where he is also on the board. We also return to the theme of share price influencing decisions – in this case, given the success of Raia Drogasil, how to avoid hubris after a period of strong performance. Eugenio doesn't hold back – this is a frank and educational conversation. With thanks to Daniel Gargioulo for reconnecting us.