Divergent States
Divergent States
Podcast Description
The Divergent States Podcast, hosted by "3L1T3"—founder of the Psychonaut subreddit with nearly 500k members—and co-hosted by Bryan, a USMC veteran passionate about psychedelics for therapeutic healing, explores the intersection of psychedelics, science, spirituality, and culture. Featuring guests like Hamilton Morris, Dr. Rick Strassman, and Dr. Rick Doblin, we blend cutting-edge research with personal stories to showcase how psychedelics transform mental health, creativity, and culture. Join us as we navigate the frontier of consciousness.
Podcast Insights
Content Themes
The podcast focuses on psychedelics, mental health, spirituality, and cultural implications, with episodes detailing topics such as the therapeutic use of MDMA for veterans, the legacy of the Shulgin family, and the evolution of the r/Psychonaut subreddit. Specific focus areas include community support, harm reduction in psychedelic use, and the intersection of science and spirituality in therapeutic contexts.
Divergent States cuts through psychedelic hype with grounded, skeptical conversations. Hosted by 3L1T3, founder of r/Psychonaut, the world’s largest forum dedicated to the safe use of psychedelics, and co-hosted by Bryan, a USMC veteran and advocate for psychedelic healing, the show examines the science, culture, and contradictions shaping the psychedelic landscape.
No mysticism. No marketing. Just data, lived experience, and hard questions.
We explore how psychedelics impact mental health, creativity, and society, from clinical trials to cultural fault lines. Nothing’s off-limits. Everything is up for scrutiny.
Guests include Rick Doblin, Reggie Watts, Leonard Pickard, Anne Wagner, Hamilton Morris, and Rick Strassman.
If you’re looking for reverence, this isn’t your show.
If you’re after critical, intelligent dialogue about what psychedelics actually do, welcome to Divergent States.
New episodes every two weeks.
In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 sits down with Betty Aldworth, the new co-president of MAPS, as she steps into shared leadership with Ismail Ali following Rick Doblin’s four-decade run.
Betty brings decades of experience in drug policy reform, from Colorado’s 2012 cannabis legalization campaign to leading Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and now helps guide MAPS through one of the movement’s most pivotal moments: the FDA’s rejection of Lycos Therapeutics’ MDMA-assisted therapy application.
We unpack the tension between science and advocacy, urgency and rigor, and explore what real access means for people living with PTSD. Betty offers a candid, emotionally grounded look at the FDA’s critique, the role of stigma, and how MAPS plans to keep pushing forward through education, policy, and global research initiatives.
Later, the conversation turns to the larger movement: political support from both sides of the aisle, state-level reform models, and MAPS’ upcoming 40th anniversary in 2026.
Key Points
- Betty’s path from SSDP to co-president of MAPS
- The FDA’s rejection of MDMA-assisted therapy: what it really means
- How “positive adverse events” became a sticking point in the FDA review
- Durability of treatment effects and the debate over long-term data
- Balancing activism, science, and education under MAPS’ new leadership model
- The growing divide between regulatory caution and patient urgency
- Grassroots and state-level psychedelic reform gaining ground
- The stigma that still shadows MDMA despite decades of data
- Harm-reduction advice for those seeking underground healing
- What’s ahead for MAPS’ 40th anniversary and new research directions
⏱ Chapter Markers
00:00 – Intro — Bryan’s stage play, today’s guest: Betty Aldworth
02:00 – MAPS’ new leadership and legacy after Rick Doblin
05:00 – Betty on stepping into the role and the three MAPS pillars
08:00 – From activism to leadership — lessons from SSDP
11:45 – Balancing research, advocacy, and education
14:00 – FDA rejection letter — what really happened
16:00 – “Positive adverse events” and the question of abuse potential
22:30 – Durability of treatment and COVID-era data gaps
26:30 – Prior MDMA experience and bias — myth or factor?
29:20 – Politics, science, and the credibility dilemma
32:30 – RFK Jr., AOC, and politicization of psychedelics
35:00 – Echoes of the 1980s scheduling fight
36:20 – What comes next — Phase III, audits, and resilience
38:30 – MAPS’ evolving research priorities & global work
41:00 – Normalization, decriminalization, and stigma
43:45 – Science vs activism — carrying both forward
48:00 – State-level reform and slow federal process
50:30 – Cannabis rescheduling and broader reform
52:00 – A message to people living with PTSD
55:00 – MAPS’ 40th anniversary — what’s ahead
57:00 – Closing reflections — stay weird, keep exploring
Thanks to Dyl👽Alien for the music!
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