What happens when Black Americans stop trying to save a country that refuses to protect them? In this provocative conversation, journalist Tiffany D. Cross and bestselling author Michael Harriot confront America’s dependence on Black labor, leadership, and sacrifice while questioning whether the promise of equality was ever meant to be fulfilled. From the political awakening following the 2024 election to the possibility of leaving America altogether, they challenge the belief that Black freedom must come through acceptance by a system built on oppression. Their discussion raises an unsettling question: Is the future of Black liberation about fighting for a place in America—or finally building something beyond it?

Order Michael Harriot Book Here: https://bookshop.org/a/20190/9780358439165
Order Tiffany Cross Books Here: https://bookshop.org/a/20190/9781538775493

Order Baldwin & Co. Merch Here: https://shop.baldwinandcobooks.com
Learn more about Baldwin & Co. Foundation: https://bcofoundation.org

Chapters
0:00 Introductions
0:38 America Depends on Black Women, But Won’t Protect Them
2:01 Coates, Kamala Harris & the Lessons of Black Women
2:41 Mothers Teach How to Be, Fathers Teach What to Do
4:45 Is America Crumbling?
6:38 Ella Baker: “Bigger Than the Hamburger”
7:51 Is the Law Just Words on Paper?
9:53 Can America Ever Be Home?
12:48 What Freedom Felt Like in Ghana
17:30 The White Lion
19:52 Don’t Romanticize Leaving
22:57 What Should Black Fathers Tell Their Children?
25:52 What Are You Running To?
27:07 Remembering Our Love for Each Other
30:55 Community, Family & What Wealth Really Means
38:25 Midterms Miss the Plot
39:24 Love Helped Us Survive the Slave Ships
43:13 The Girl Who Burned Down the Barn
45:08 It Was Never About Democrats vs. Republicans
50:01 Done Debating
51:46 They’ve Always Been Extremists
56:33 Love Is in Our Fight
57:07 The Beloved Community

This episode is part of the ongoing conversations hosted by Baldwin & Co., a Black-owned bookstore, café, and cultural institution based in New Orleans. Baldwin & Co. exists at the intersection of literature, ideas, and community—creating space for rigorous dialogue, storytelling, and intellectual exchange.

Through author talks, podcasts, live events, and community programming, Baldwin & Co. amplifies voices shaping how we understand culture, history, politics, faith, and the future.

Stay connected with Baldwin & Co. across platforms:

Instagram: @baldwinandco
X (Twitter): @baldwinandco
Facebook: Baldwin & Co.
YouTube: Baldwin & Co.
Website: www.baldwinandcobooks.com

Visit us in New Orleans or online to support independent bookselling, discover powerful literature, and engage in conversations that matter.

#TiffanyCross #MichaelHarriot #BlackAFHistory #LoveMe #BlackWomen #BlackInAmerica #BlackLove #BlackCommunity #BlackHistory #PanAfricanism #BlackDiaspora #Ghana #Democracy #BlackAuthors #Podcast