Many believe that Apple’s practices over recent years are threatening a fair and open internet, so I sit down with Dustee Jenkins, Spotify’s Chief Public Affairs Officer, to discuss why Spotify, Patreon, Epic Games, and more have been fighting to level the digital playing field.

Chapters

0:00 – Covering background and biases 

6:04 – Dustee’s initial thoughts

7:19 – Userbase comparison (Apple vs Spotify)

8:44 – If Apple Music pays artists more than Spotify

13:10 – Why people should be open-minded about this topic

15:59 – How fair competition should be within the digital market

17:23 – (Part 1) How Apple benefitted from “There’s an app for that” 

19:46 – When Apple introduced the 30% charge and more

22:09 – Apple’s belief that Spotify owes them

23:37 – Apple squashing other companies’ revenue

25:12 – Apple suppressing competitor messaging 

26:41 – (Part 1) Apple quietly updating its terms, often 

28:02 – The EU siding with Spotify, fining Apple $2 billion

29:24 – The Digital Markets Act and Spotify taking this fight worldwide

32:22 – Tech legislation in the EU vs US

33:50 – Google has been willing to work with Spotify

34:37 – The importance of Epics Games vs Apple (very timely)

38:27 – Huge update, US court ruling allows communication 

41:34 – What Spotify wants moving forward (Laws, not just rulings)

43:03 – How people can stay involved

43:37 – A lot of companies being afraid to speak out 

45:22 – When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek decided to take on Apple 

47:24 – Why this fight is about the future of the internet

49:00 – (Part 2) How Apple benefitted from “There’s an app for that” 

52:56 – (Part 2) Apple quietly updating its terms, often (Ex: audiobooks)

55:25 – How not tackling this adds more expenses for consumers

56:07 – Spotify’s experience with the Epic Games ruling since 

56:56 – Dustee’s experience with journalism 

59:26 – A learning for those interested in Communications 

1:01:35 – The role work ethic and curiosity play in Dustee’s life

1:02:54 – What music Dustee is listening to lately 

1:03:55 – Outro

Intro animation by Black Book Studio: https://www.blackbook.studio/

You can also find Dustee on

X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/DusteeJenkins

Spotify resources mentioned

Loud and Clear: https://loudandclear.byspotify.com/

Time to Play Fair: https://timetoplayfair.com/

Court ruling updates: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2025-05-01/following-landmark-court-ruling-spotify-submits-new-app-update-to-apple-to-benefit-u-s-consumers/

You can also find me on

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julesterpak

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Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/julesterpak/

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Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/user/31cv2j5da4stkrv6mysp5xfetb3m

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jules-terpak/id1772071442

You can find “Fishbowl with Jules Terpak” on

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Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/fishbowlpod/

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Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fishbowl-with-jules-terpak/id1787042781

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