“UPI itself is not a business. It is a public payment infrastructure – more like a highway. The money is made from everything around it.”

In this episode of The 2040 Banker, we sit down with Vivek, a seasoned banking and payments professional, to unpack how India’s payment ecosystem has evolved from net banking and OTP devices to an API-driven world – and where UPI, credit cards, RuPay and digital banking could take us next.We go beyond UPI transaction volumes to ask the bigger question: If UPI transactions don’t directly make money, where does the value actually come from?We explore how banks are using transaction data to understand customer behaviour, deepen relationships, cross-sell financial products and extend credit to customers who historically had little or no access to it.The conversation also dives into the economics of co-branded credit cards, why fintechs should view cards as a customer-acquisition and retention strategy rather than a short-term revenue play, how RuPay and UPI can strengthen each other, and why India’s next wave of growth may come from merchants and customers beyond the top of the pyramid.We also discuss the future of BHIM, UPI Circle, tokenisation, CBDCs, fraud prevention, bank-fintech partnerships and the role of trust in the next generation of digital payments.This is Season 2 of The 2040 Banker — a podcast exploring how global banking has evolved over the last two decades, and where it’s headed in the next one.Whether you work in banking, fintech, payments, lending, credit, risk, or digital financial services, this episode offers a deep look at the forces shaping India’s financial ecosystem — from payment infrastructure and customer data to credit, fraud, trust and the technologies that could define banking by 2040.👉 Subscribe for more conversations with banking and fintech leaders.👉 Tell us in the comments: **Will UPI and credit cards still coexist in 2040 – or will one ultimately dominate?**#UPI #DigitalPayments #CreditCards #RuPay #Fintech #Banking #DigitalBanking #Payments #2040Banker—Watch The 2040 Banker episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH1DwwQHLEcsYmp_Pq5mjYTAR9CHpG0ff🎧 Stream The 2040 Banker episodes onSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6o8MInqUz9xUOvSLMKvwQS?si=39dcd38634214445Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-2040-banker/id1770762072—💡 About Refo:Refo is a next generation digital banking core for embedded finance founded by fintech veterans and backed by advisors and angels from Google, ex-regulators and banking professionals.🌐 Check out RefoWebsite: https://www.refo.devLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refo-inTwitter: https://x.com/RefoDev—Vivek on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vivek-manchanda-8b9b20b/Nitin Sharma on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nitinsharma11/