This week, Zack, Josie, and Brad welcome Mary — a licensed professional counselor with 13 years in the lifestyle alongside her husband. With a rare mix of professional insight and personal experience, Mary opens up about emotional awareness, connection, and the importance of taking care of yourself — and your relationship — while living the lifestyle.

Mary shares her perspective on knowing when it might be time to step back and refocus on your partnership, and how the lifestyle can magnify both the challenges and the strengths within a relationship. Drawing from her trauma specialization, she discusses the four types of trauma, how they can quietly shape our lifestyle experiences, and why vulnerability and shame often show up where we least expect them.

The conversation shines a light on the feelings many swingers experience but struggle to name — and offers a fresh, compassionate perspective on what it really means to grow together through honesty, self-awareness, and trust.

As Mary put it best: there are many different kinds of therapy… and sometimes, the lifestyle can be one of them.

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(00:00:00) Mary has a different perspective as a trauma therapist who’s also in the lifestyle

(00:02:44) Coming from a place of love or fear

(00:04:21) Everyone is in the lifestyle they just don’t know it

(00:05:28) Stumbling upon the lifestyle

(00:07:25) Choosing to explore and grow instead of running in fear

(00:10:37) My husband and I have 13 years of lifestyle experience

(00:13:03) The impact trauma has on our lives and lifestyle journeys

(00:15:35) Four types of trauma: betrayal, abandonment, rejection, and shame

(00:17:00) Information overload and the direction society is moving in

(00:21:05) Men and women think differently

(00:24:11) Personality differences impact experiences, too

(00:27:22) Is energy the same as attunement

(00:30:30) The lifestyle will magnify any problems you have in your relationship

(00:33:24) The biggest trauma trigger in the lifestyle is shame

(00:35:49) Daily walks, communication and thought experiments

(00:38:43) Tips to help couples better communicate

(00:40:15) Self-advocacy and learning to speak up for yourself

(00:41:47) How to know if you’re having ‘too much’ lifestyle

(00:44:23) What to do when you feel triggered in a play session

(00:48:34) Tips on taking care of yourselves and your relationship

(00:49:43) When to seek counseling and how to find a good therapist

(00:53:35) Nuggets of wisdom from Mary

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Resources

Lewis Howes’ Interview with Esther Perel

Brene Brown’s Ted Talk on Shame – YouTube 2012

Dr. Brian Pennie’s interview with Dr. Gabor Mate, an expert on Trauma and Addiction

BARS Acronym

• Betrayal
• Abandonment
• Rejection
• Shame