What actually happens when a species is listed as threatened or endangered? Who makes those decisions? And what does wildlife law mean for hunters and conservation?

Dylan sits down with wildlife law attorney Mike Oropallo and Pope & Young Executive Director Justin Spring for a deep dive into the laws, policies, and international agreements that shape wildlife conservation in the United States and around the world.

This conversation goes far beyond grizzly bears. We break down the Endangered Species Act, the 4(d) Rule, Chevron deference, Loper Bright, CITES, IUCN classifications, delisting criteria, and the role of socioeconomic factors in conservation decisions.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The 4(d) Rule and what it means for threatened species like grizzly bears
• Chevron deference (1984) and why it mattered to wildlife law
• Loper Bright (2024) and the end of Chevron deference
• What the Endangered Species Act actually means by “harm”
• The difference between threatened vs. endangered species under the ESA
• What criteria are used to delist a species
• How the IUCN classifies species and how that differs from U.S. law
• What CITES is and how its listing system works
• The role of the United States delegation in CITES
• CITES listing criteria and potential changes being considered
• Whether socioeconomic factors should play a role in conservation decisions
• How socioeconomic considerations differ between CITES and the ESA
• How species can be upgraded, downgraded, or removed from CITES Appendices
• The role hunters play in wildlife conservation and management
• Why understanding wildlife law matters to the future of hunting

Wildlife conservation is complicated—and the laws governing it can have enormous consequences for hunters, wildlife, landowners, and the animals themselves.

If you care about hunting, conservation, and the future of North American wildlife, you don’t want to miss this conversation.