Let’s talk about pain.

Not the kind you can shake off with a paracetamol and a good night’s sleep, but the kind that burrows deep, rewires your life, and dares you to keep going.

If you’re a woman, chances are you know this pain intimately.

Studies show that over 30% of people worldwide live with chronic pain, but women bear the brunt – up to 34.6% of us report it, compared to 27.1% of men [1].

And when it’s severe, we’re 37% more likely to feel its full weight, with 19.8% of women rating their pain as severe versus 14.4% of men [2].

These aren’t just statistics – they’re indicators of the daily reality for millions of us, a silent epidemic of suffering that’s been ignored for too long.

Now, layer on multiple sclerosis (MS), a disease that disproportionately strikes women—over 2.9 million people globally live with MS, and in Australia alone, that number exceeds 33,000, with women outnumbering men 3 to 1 [3].

Up to 80% of those with MS experience chronic pain at some point, a grinding “companion” to a condition that’s already a thief of energy, mobility, and certainty [4].

I’ve spent the past six years navigating this landscape, and I know you probably have too or someone you love is working their way through this maze.

That’s why I’m so excited to share S2 EP2 of Phoenix Sound, “Chronic Pain, MS and Empowerment with the amazing Chrissy Symeonakis, the fierce founder of Creative Little Soul who has turned her pain into a purpose, building a business that gives women their dignity back. This truth has been echoing in my mind ever since:

This isn’t just a conversation; it’s a battle cry for every woman who’s ever been dismissed, diminished, or told to “just deal with it.”

Chrissy’s story is a masterclass in fierce self-advocacy.

When her MS diagnosis hit at 30, she didn’t wait for permission to rewrite her life.

She set non-negotiable boundaries—like refusing summer meetings to manage her heat sensitivity—and built a business model that prioritises chronic illness, empowering her team and clients to reclaim their agency.

In a world where women with chronic pain are often gaslit by healthcare systems especially those living with episodic disabilities like MS or lupus, Chrissy’s unapologetic advocacy is a reminder:

If we don’t stand up and fight for ourselves, who will?

But what does it mean to fight authentically and with integrity?

Chrissy’s approach to marketing her business is a masterclass in both.

She doesn’t hide her struggles—she shares them, building a brand that resonates because it’s real.

In an era where 85% of consumers say authenticity drives their loyalty, Chrissy’s transparency isn’t just brave; it’s brilliant [5].

She’s not selling a polished facade; she’s offering a lifeline to women who see themselves in her story.

And she’s not afraid to explore alternative therapies to manage her pain either.

From medical cannabis to massage and setting her own work rhythm, Chrissy’s journey echoes a growing trend: 57.1% of people with MS have tried complementary therapies, seeking holistic relief where conventional medicine often falls short [6].

Her story challenges us to rethink what healing looks like—maybe it’s not just in a pill bottle, but in the courage to explore something new.

What struck me most, though, was Chrissy’s generosity and passion for mentorship.

During our conversation she says, “I just have so much time for people starting out,” and you can feel the truth in that through all the incredible work she does.

She’s mentored university students, hired interns (one now works for her full-time), and created a culture at Creative Little Soul that lifts others up.

A 2023 study found that 87% of mentees report increased confidence and career growth, and for women with chronic illnesses, that support can be a game-changer [7].

Chrissy knows that when women inspire women, we don’t just survive—we succeed.

This episode is for every endo warrior, ever spoonie, every woman who’s ever felt the weight of chronic pain, the sting of dismissal, or the flicker of hope that there’s a way through.

This conversation is a love letter to say: we see you.

Chrissy’s words are a call to action—let’s share our stories, lift each other up, and fight for the care we deserve!

We’d love to hear from you—what’s one way you’re finding strength through adversity?

Reply in the comments – let’s keep this fire burning, together.

Keep rising,

Kel

Here’s a roadmap to guide you through the episode:

– **5:00**: Chrissy takes us inside the nightclub scene—her life before MS reshaped everything.

– **5:55**: The power of mentorship—why encouragement can change lives.

– **9:16**: How clear communication and assertion can help us come unstuck, even on our darkest days.

– **13:30**: Hitting “shit town” and rising stronger—Chrissy’s raw take on resilience.

– **22:48**: Adapting to life with MS, from setting boundaries to finding what works.

– **28:07**: Building a business that gives women their dignity back—a mission born from pain.

– **48:10**: “We have so many stories that need to be shared, and women inspiring women is such a powerful thing”—Chrissy’s closing words that’ll stay with you.

References:

[1] Mills, S.E.E., et al. (2019). Chronic pain: a review of its epidemiology and associated factors in population-based studies. *British Journal of Anaesthesia*.

[2] National Center for Health Statistics. (2021). Chronic Pain Among Adults — United States, 2019. CDC Data Brief No. 390.

[3] MS International Federation. (2023). *Atlas of MS, 3rd Edition*

[4] Marck, C.H., et al. (2017). Pain in People with Multiple Sclerosis: Associations with Modifiable Lifestyle Factors, Fatigue, Depression, Anxiety, and Mental Health Quality of Life. *Frontiers in Neurology*.

[5] Stackla (Nosto). (2023). Consumer Behavior Report.

[6] Skovgaard, L., et al. (2012). Use of Complementary and Alternative Medicine among People with Multiple Sclerosis in the Nordic Countries. Autoimmune Diseases.

[7] MentorcliQ. (2023). Mentorship Program Impact Report.

S2 EP2 Chrissy Symeonakis

[00:00:00] Kel: I’m Kel Myers and this is Phoenix Sound. Now, before we start, I want to let you know that this episode includes a reference to suicide, which some might find tough to hear. Now, if you need support, you can find a helpline in your country through find a helpline.com.

Supported by the International Association for Suicide Prevention. in today’s episode, I sat down with Chrissy Symeonakis founder and managing director of the award-winning agency, creative Little Soul for a conversation that left me truly inspired.

When Chrissy found out that she had MS at the age of 30, her world turned upside down.

Living with chronic pain is one of the worst forms of adversity a person can face. It’s a daily battle that tests every ounce of your strength, and not everyone feels equipped to keep fighting. But Chrissy faced her health battle’s head on, transforming her pain into purpose by building a business that not only supports their health, but also empowers others to rise above their own suffering too.

Mixing raw innovation with a bold belief that success starts with believing in yourself, Chrissy is a fierce, chronic illness advocate now helping others find their voice through adversity. We talk about how having a get shit done mindset drives her work, how alternative medicine has helped her heal, and why self-advocacy and setting boundaries are essential to healing, for those of us living with chronic pain, stay with us.

Hi, Chrissy. How you going?

[00:01:31] Chrissy Symeonakis: Good. How you going?

[00:01:32] Kel: Yeah, I’m good. Lovely to hear your voice.

[00:01:35] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah, you too.

[00:01:35] Kel: Thanks for joining me on Phoenix Sound, its so great to have you here. So glad that we finally get to chat with each other. We’ve exchanged a few emails and I just felt an instant connection to you and your work and your journey, which is just truly inspiring.

So for our listeners, at 30 Chrissy, While deeply immersed in hospitality marketing and events faced a life altering MS diagnosis and this pivotal moment led to Chrissy reevaluating her career and lifestyle and ultimately inspired. You to establish Creative Little Soul in 2013 and over the past 12 years, your agency’s flourished evolving from a solo endeavour into a thriving digital agency with a really diverse team of creatives, all passionate professionals.

And you know, it really takes a rare kind of resilience, I think and vision to not only like pivot in the face of that kind of adversity, but to also build something as well that empowers others along the way. That’s just, you know, extraordinary really.

[00:02:37] Chrissy Symeonakis: Thank you.

[00:02:39] Kel: And in terms of, of people that you’ve empowered I’m including myself in that equation too. So that ripple effect continues to go out and your work is helping so many businesses find their voice as well. And your ability to blend creative with strategy, I think is a real testament to, to your passion and expertise.

So welcome to Phoenix Sound Chrissy, it’s lovely to have you here.

Thank you. And thank you for that intro. That was really nice.

You’re welcome. My partner and I were researching for the interview and she was actually so excited. I, I said to her, do you wanna interview Chrissy? Because she was so empowered by, by your work and your story and bless.

Yeah. Yeah. I’d love to know what originally drew you into the creative service industry, and how has that journey evolved over the past two decades?

You know, technology’s changed so much in that period of time and the way that we, you know, find information and, use information so I’d love to get your thoughts on that.

[00:03:36] Chrissy Symeonakis: So I was always a really creative kid.

So, you know, my teacher one of my school teachers that I’m still connected with actually told me that she used to love reading my journals and creative stories at school. Because, you know, instead of filling one page, I probably feel about 20.

So I just was inspired and really at a young age, my Mum encouraged me to write and I always wanted to be a writer and a journalist.

I grew up in regional South Australia, so my auntie was the head of the community services division at the council. So she got me involved in a lot of like local council initiatives, youth week events. There was a youth newspaper and I was the editor at like 16 of that and did some writing courses.

So just from a really young age, I, I just had a lot of inspiration and people pushing me into the creative sphere. I type so heavy. Everyone laughs at me because I learned to write on a typewriter, so I’m quite heavy handed.

[00:04:31] Kel: Right.

[00:04:32] Chrissy Symeonakis: And then, and then yeah, always was kind of that person that anyone, if they needed something written or, you know, assignments proofread at high school like I was the go-to.

And then, yeah, I. Just figured out that, you know, I wanted to do something in media, did some work experience at high school and radio at the newspaper, and then just got a column in my small little town newspaper, writing about music. And then, I guess, you know, moved to the city, worked for a big nightclub, did their press and PR and marketing and yeah.

[00:05:07] Kel: What was that, what was that like for a nightclub? Yeah.

[00:05:10] Chrissy Symeonakis: Amazing.

[00:05:11] Kel: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[00:05:12] Chrissy Symeonakis: So I was this fresh faced country girl who moved three hours away to the big city. It was a wild time. I’m actually writing a book at the moment because I worked in King’s Cross in Sydney.

I worked in Adelaide in some nightclubs and all over the world. And I’m actually writing a book at the moment um, which will be. Yeah, later in the year about all the crazy stuff I saw in the nightclub scene.

[00:05:33] Kel: Oh, brilliant. You’ll have to send us a copy and come back to have a chat about that.

[00:05:39] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah, for sure.

[00:05:40] Kel: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I’m just, I was wondering as well, like, how important do you think encouragement is you know, you say you had a lot of people supporting you, kind of like, you know, channeling your energy in that direction where you were already passionate.

How important is it to have that encouragement, you know from a young age to, to kind of spur on, do what we want to

[00:05:58] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah – huge. . I’m massive when it comes to mentorship. I actually have a relationship with a great friend of mine, her name’s Lauren. And she’s a university lecturer. She’s teaches creative industries and every semester she partners me with a student who has to do some work experience in a creative industry. And I’ve had two of her interns now, and one of them actually works for me full time now. So, you know, she did that one day a week to two days a week, to three days a week. And I just, I just have so much time for people starting out because, you know, without myself having those mentors along the way, and I still have mentors now, it’s just great to have somebody that, you know, can point you down the right path who can answer your questions, and just somebody that you can have a bit of a sounding board conversation to as well.

[00:06:49] Kel: Yeah. It’s like having someone to kind of walk that road with you and a companion down, like a dark, you know, maybe dangerous street when, when you’re starting out.

It’s really important to have that person there that can guide you for sure.

[00:07:02] Chrissy Symeonakis: Absolutely.

[00:07:02] Kel: So you’ve got a signature get shit done attitude, which I absolutely love. That’s just, it’s amazing. Uhhuh. Yeah. And I, I feel like I need that on a cup, like on a, on a tea mug now, after

[00:07:12] Chrissy Symeonakis: I’m gonna have to do some merch.

[00:07:13] Kel: Yes totally do some merch its amazing. Yeah. Where does that come from and how’s that shaped your career? That just idea of get it done, get it finished, you know?

[00:07:23] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah. So I come from a Greek Australian background. So my grandparents immigrated to Australia in the sixties. When they came to Australia, they left their family and everything that they knew behind them.

My dad was two years old and his elder sister was, I think maybe six. And I’ve always, been around, like my, my family had as I was growing up a huge fruit farm and they still have vineyards now. And just from a young age, like, you know, we were probably four or five, six, we were in the shed. We were out there helping, you know, pick or cut you know, there’d be grapes we’d help.

Not that I loved it. Mm-hmm. But I always just saw my grandparents. And my, my grandfather just passed a few days ago and my grandma a year ago, but like up until their eighties they were still out there helping my dad. So we’ve always been around this really strong work ethic. And even my dad, you know, while we were growing up, had three jobs just to give us all this opportunity that we have.

And I think as well, when I got my chronic illness and my disability diagnosed, one of the things that really stuck with me was that the neurologist at the time said that if I don’t make some changes within my lifestyle and diet and health, I was gonna fast my track myself to a wheelchair. And at 30 years old, I was like, that’s not the trajectory I want my life to take.

Yeah. So for me, it kind of just kind of gave me a bit of a wake up call and just said, you know what? Life’s too short. And you really don’t know what the future’s going to foresee, so you just need to pull your finger out and not wait for opportunities, but create those opportunities for yourself and that’s where that get shit done mantra comes from. Yeah. You know, I’m not sunshine and rainbows. If I send an email, I am probably gonna be very direct and to the point. Yeah. And that direct and to the point approach actually is what a lot of my clients need because they’re a little bit stuck as well.

[00:09:18] Kel: Yeah. Yeah. That assertion. Yeah, definitely. And, and just that clarity as well that gets provided when you are kind of to the point and you’re not like fluffing around, you know, everyone gets to be on the same page quickly that way. And yeah, I must say like all our interactions, I felt so safe with you, Chrissy, and I’ve said that to my partner.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, because not everyone is kind to be honest, so it’s. It’s always lovely when, when people are, it’s refreshing. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And, and sorry to hear about the loss of, of your grandparent the other day. That’s, that’s a tremendous loss. And, you know, thank you. You talk about that intergenerational kind of connection where you’re seeing different generations that you’re all connected to all working hard and facing such adversity.

And like, I know for myself. Like my grandparents like survived like the Nazis and there was like, bomb dropped on my Nana’s house as a kid. When you grow up with people that have survived, things like that, you kind of like, you know, you learn to put things into perspective a bit more about like absolutely what, you know, struggle is and challenges and you, you learn to kind of just get through things.

[00:10:27] Chrissy Symeonakis: Absolutely

[00:10:27] Kel: what would you say is like the biggest challenge you’ve faced in life and how did you overcome it?

Yeah, so I would say at 2019, so at the end of 2019, I. I had my really good friend, Paul Strange. He was a really successful promoter and event producer actually, and one of my mentors committed suicide.

And I’d only spoken to him a few days before and I had no idea and that kind of really shocked me and shook me. So there was Paul’s death, there were the Australian bush fires. And then Covid happened and I have OCD diagnosed and all of those events just compiling actually forced me and my little brain to just have a nervous breakdown.

I just couldn’t process. Yeah, and you know, I just remember. You know, all my clients calling me about covid and you know, there’s all that uncertainty and business closure and my brain just just said, nah, can’t do this. So I had to call my GP and then have like a mental health assessment and it was you know, a, a, a medication adjustment ’cause I have depression and OCD.

So there was a medication adjust there, but it made me then seek out the services of a therapist and you know, I’d always heard everyone else was talking about therapy and, and you know what, that was the, I call it a breakthrough now as opposed to a breakdown because just being able to then go and get that help and talk about childhood trauma and then trauma around my MS diagnose, like I now see a therapist on a monthly basis and it’s more proactive as opposed as reactive. ’cause I know ever want to get to that point again. And I just, I buy therapy appointments for my family and my friends. I think we should all do it. It’s just the best thing to help us.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Therapy is so important and, and being proactive. Like, like you said, I, it’s funny you say that ’cause I had a therapist literally say that to me last October. That’s the note she left me on. She said, be proactive like three times in a row at the end of the call. This game changer, it really is to just have that in mind.

Like, what can I actually control and. You know? Yeah. ’cause as you well know, living with, with illnesses and when it’s complex as well, you know, there’s so many challenges that we face that just everyday people would never really have to consider, you know? For sure. Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, really sorry for, for your loss there too.

And, and thank you. Would’ve been a shock. Of course.

And you’re right. It’s a case of how do we go through these things? And it can break us. But yeah, I’ve got a quote here.

I overcame myself, the sufferer. I carried my own ashes to the mountains. I invented a brighter flame for myself.

It’s a Nietzsche quote, and I’ve got it like above my desk. My partner like wrote it out in a nice little card with a picture on it.

[00:13:27] Chrissy Symeonakis: love that.

[00:13:28] Kel: Because it’s like, you know, sometimes we do have to become like the ashes. We do have to like go all the way down, like to shit town. Yeah. You know what I mean? To like, to come Absolutely. Like, you know, hopefully wiser and stronger from it.

Maybe a few more scars.

[00:13:43] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah. And anytime anything happens I actually like, have the skills now to say, what am I meant to learn from this? Or, what am I meant to take from this? And I just kind of sit in that for a little while. And, you know, I do get a message back, which I, I, I.

Is my intuition or God or spirit, like whatever you wanna call it. But every time now I’m just like, cool. You know what, what’s the lesson I need to learn? How’s it gonna help me moving forward? Okay, cool. Let’s, and, and I’m very much a quick processor. Like I’m a big believer that you have to spend time in your feelings.

Mm-hmm. Otherwise you just internalise them and then bottle ’em up. And then, and I’m a big believer that, you know, by us holding onto stuff, that’s where the body gets a chronic illness or cancer or something like we’re ruminating and you know, it’s not good for us. So I like to process and I, I do a 20 minute rule and so I will be sad, mad, glad, you know, those big feelings.

Or I’ll have a cry for 20 minutes and it’s an ugly snotty cry. And then I’ll go Cool. You’ve processed that, now let’s move on and do the rest of your day. And I can have those 20 minute breaks as often as I need them, but I just can’t get stuck in bed for five days and, you know, go into deep depression because it’s not proactive and it’s not productive or good for me.

Mm.

[00:15:02] Kel: Yeah. I hear ya. And having like a practice in place where it’s like 20 minutes and you know what you’re kind of getting and it’s like, I love that. That’s such a, that’s such a great idea. Like I’ve never set like a timer on it, but I do sometimes have an ugly cry in the shower in the morning.

And I had one this because I woke up in quite a lot of pain. I’m actually get my, I replaced in a couple of months. So I’m in a difficult position where it’s. Increased my quite significantly and I was probably in the shower. Oh no. But it’s good to just get it out and it’s nice to get the hot shower on you and then you get out and you just feel relieved and it’s over and you can just kind of move on with the day, you know?

Yeah, for sure. You say you don’t wanna keep it in in the body, like that’s when things get really problematic. When we hold and we do, we hold onto so much these days. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s yeah, it’s, it’s good to have an ugly cry or just say, no, I’m feeling pissed off at the moment, mate. You know.

Yeah, absolutely

do that.

Then pretend that everything’s all rosy, like all the time, because it’s never that for anyone. Is it really? Let’s be honest.

[00:16:08] Chrissy Symeonakis: No, not at all. No chronic illness or not like, you know, and I, and I feel like, you know a lot of people don’t feel like they have permission to feel their feelings. And like, especially when, you know, grief is involved, like.

And, you know, the other day was my, my Ms. Adversary. I call it my MS diagnosis anniversary. And leading up to it, like those feelings came back up again. ’cause I had some, you know, misdiagnosis issues and then some, you know, medical, I don’t know, mal malpractice misconduct type stuff happened as well. So all of these feelings of anger and rage came back up.

Mm. And I was just like, Ooh, yeah, we don’t wanna go that. And I, and I dealt with it for like, you know, 10, 15 minutes, but I’m like, yeah, but look how far you’ve come and look how far you’ve evolved. So don’t focus on the anger and rage. Just move through it real quickly.

[00:17:03] Kel: Yeah, I think you, you’re giving people a masterclass in what it looks like to be self-aware, Chrissy, you know, to be able to notice these things and just slow it down.

I think that’s everything, isn’t it? It’s not, there’s no like wrong emotion. Like it’s okay to feel angry. It’s a, it’s a normal reaction when there’s injustice and there’s a lot of injustice in this world, especially for women. I mean, that’s you gas. It’s not the way, it’s, so it’s like we are okay. Mm. But you know, we might feel angry or we might feel sad or frustrated and, and it’s okay to, to feel those things, but I think the problem lies sometimes when people don’t have that self-awareness and yeah.

How you worked to cultivate that?

[00:17:46] Chrissy Symeonakis: So it hasn’t been easy. I’m really lucky. My aunt, my dad’s younger sister, she’s a cool auntie Trudy throughout my probably like teenage years and stuff like that. She was a therapist and, and still does a lot of like holistic psychology stuff.

So from a pretty young age, I was taught to look at meditation. Kind of sitting in your feelings. Hypnosis? I do, so I do hypnosis once a month and work with a really cool lady and just a lot of reading and, you know, trying to better myself. But the hypnosis is a game changer for me. I see a woman once a month.

We do an hour. You know, my dad triggers me, but we’re both very similar in personality. So whenever I’m planning a trip home I go and see her so that I have some coping mechanisms and just a reminder that I do love my dad and if he does trigger me, just, you know, what I might do with those feelings or, you know, away way for me to change the conversation or a way for me to cope.

And then, you know, I. Just had a skip this session the other day, and obviously my business is going really well. I’m starting to implement some new structures and strategies, seek out some new clients. So I know from my, my past self that limiting selfie managing self-sabotage and communication can struggle for me.

So we proactively went in to work on those things. So yeah, that’s a little bit of how I’ve, I’ve come to play with that.

[00:19:21] Kel: I’ve never heard anyone chat about hypnotherapy before. I’m not really that familiar with it. For, for anyone that, that, that isn’t who’s like me, who’s uneducated, what would like a typical session look like?

[00:19:33] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. So what we do is before we have the session, we just identify anything that we would like to work on. So like. Example, the limiting self beliefs. And then what we’ll do is my hypnotherapist asks me where I would like to go today. So it’s like a little bit of a vacation. Hmm. So my ideal place to go is by the beach.

So I like the, the water. So she’ll basically tell me to close my eyes. And then she just starts talking about, you know, you, you’re going into a trance. You are walking down some steps and you’re getting. You know, a bit more relaxed, more relaxed, more relaxed, and then you go into hypnotherapy. So the entire time you’re conscious.

But what the point of the session is, is to not talk to your, your conscious self, but your self-conscious self. So the actual part of the brain that makes the decisions and kind of is in the background and then she just makes light. Instructions and you know, you coming into a busy time of the year you know, you are strong, you are powerful.

You are driven. So, you know, just remember anytime if you have these thoughts of. Doubting yourself. Remember that you are, you know, a goddess or whatever, and it’s just light suggestion. I feel amazing when we have, and, and it’s funny, she said to me the other day, whenever we pick the topics that we want to talk about, so say for example, I have three things that she’s gonna discuss.

And we’ve still got like 15 minutes left of the session, I’ll fall asleep. She goes, yeah, you always fall asleep because your brain goes, all right, we’ve done the work now. Yeah. And then it shuts down.

[00:21:09] Kel: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

[00:21:11] Chrissy Symeonakis: But it’s great. Like I’ve used her for grief after my grandmother died.

I dealt it with yeah, grief, sadness, guilt, like all these things. She’s really helped me to work on.

[00:21:25] Kel: Wow. Yeah, that sounds really powerful, those affirmations. Mm-hmm. They really are. They’re, they’re so powerful for just like getting the brain on like the right track. I know for myself, like whenever I’m having a fly up on my, my partner is like, we’ll, we’ll say to each other and to ourselves, like, you’re safe.

Like, so for I say that frequently, I’d be like, safe, you safe, it’s okay. You know? So I don’t, into massive fight or flight and just having those mantra can really just, yeah, get you back on the right track.

[00:21:55] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah. And it’s funny you mentioned fight or flight because I said to her on our session last week, I said, I feel like for the longest time I’ve been in, in a, a state of fight or flight and I just wanna sit and rest and digest for a little while.

And it’s interesting, like I’m an emotional eater, like a comfort eater because my grandma. And the Greek culture, like so much of it is about food, but that’s how they show that they love you. Yeah. So it’s interesting. Since we’ve had this switch to rest and digest, I’ve noticed I’ve not been comfort eating at all and making healthier choices.

So we didn’t do anything with that at all. That’s just a byproduct of, of now switching into that mode, which I’ve noticed has been a bit of a thing.

[00:22:39] Kel: That’s cool. Yeah that’s powerful isn’t it? That association, how it can just change, like we we live by the lake in Ballarat, and there’s a farmer’s market on every other Saturday like through Summer.

It’s about 20 minute walk it’s a nice little, little trek round the lake. And we were trying some of the fresh produce a few weeks ago, like the blueberries and stuff that have come in like straight from the local farms and they just tasted so amazing. And normally we go and get a couple of donuts from this van.

But the blueberries were that good that when we had the donut, we were like, it doesn’t taste good. And when you start putting the right things in your body, it’s funny how your body starts going, nah, I’m not really digging that chocolate. I used to eat like so much chocolate.

Yeah. But since having endo, I’ve had to really kind of cut down on sugar. But it’s funny how your taste buds do just naturally adjust over time and Yeah.

[00:23:29] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:23:30] Kel: So on your website I was looking at last night, it says that there’s no substitute for self-advocacy, which I, I love and wholeheartedly agree with.

And I was wondering how living with MS has influenced your approach to work and creativity and how you’ve had to maybe adapt your life.

[00:23:48] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah, so when I started my business I was working for like a big, big hospitality group, but the toxicity was just crazy. Like it was a really bad place to work.

And looking back now, I’m like, why did we ever work there? It was, it was really bad. And so, you know, starting my own business was. You know, I never had plans of it being this big or having this many staff. Like I honestly was just creating something for myself so that if I had a flare up or a relapse, I could work from home.

That I could, I. Travel and see my family when I wanted. So, you know, and I was always, I was always very clear and transparent with people about my MS experience and how that looks for me. And, you know, in summer I’m affected by the heat, so I won’t go to face-to-face meetings until like the weather comes around.

So I just set all these rules and this criteria and they were my non-negotiables. And if you didn’t adhere or agree to them, well then I couldn’t work with you. And most people were awesome and most people were still awesome. Like they’ll call me if they know I’m unwell. They, if I’m in a hospital going for a treatment, they like, no, don’t worry about it.

You know, you look after yourself first. So I feel like I’ve created this culture where. Chronic illness is at the forefront and we’re not afraid to tell people about it. And what I know, what I notice that a lot is ’cause I’m a part of heaps of ms, like closed women groups on Facebook and different communities and a lot of people don’t share their diagnosis and they’re just not comfortable telling other people about it, even in their workplace. And I’m like, but look at the concessions that could be made for you. You know, you could have a hybrid model where you could work from home. It just was so, so foreign and, and probably a little bit sad to me that there are, there are people out there and a lot of women really that are just too scared to be vulnerable Yeah.

With their community or their friends for. Fear of persecution or exclusion. You know, a not a lot of people really understand chronic illness unless you have one. So I’m sure there’s loads of people out there that get the whole, oh yeah, my friend’s, my friend’s, cousins, auntie has ms, and they’re fine, or blah, blah, blah.

You know, any, all, all the chronic illness spoons know this. Yeah.

[00:26:15] Kel: Yeah,

[00:26:16] Chrissy Symeonakis: so for, so for me it was like, you know what, you’re pretty vocal and you’re pretty like, and my, my ethos across everything is just very direct. And not to sugarcoat anything and just to share my journey because it might inspire somebody else to share their story or they might just feel a little bit less alone.

So that’s why I’m so vocal, I suppose.

[00:26:41] Kel: Yeah. Yeah. And that ripple effect that, that creates by you sharing your voice like you are today and, and all the times like we’ve been, yeah. We’ve been reading your blogs and we had such a lovely time going through your work. Thank you. So inspiring, Chrissy. And you’re right, like women like us, we need to come out of like the shadows kind of thing and, and be at the forefront.

[00:27:01] Chrissy Symeonakis: ’cause we matter too. And we’re not in fear of humans because we’ve got chronic pain. So, yeah, you know, we deserve the respect and dignity that everyone else has afforded that’s working, you know, nine to five and running round every day. So I, it’s just shame isn’t there. I think around it. And, and, and I also understand why people feel like they can’t be vulnerable, because sometimes you can’t be, and when there’s power differentials with health practitioners And some do take advantage, some are predatory, sadly. Yeah, it’s, it’s tough isn it to know, like, you know, to traverse the system and you know, if you find a good practitioner it’s like, hold onto him, hug them tight. Absolutely. Birthday card, like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Because some are are quite bad and yeah.

and I think as well, like I have a number of ladies that work for me.

[00:27:54] Chrissy Symeonakis: My team’s completely female except for our web dev and we’ve got this amazing culture and some of my staff have chronic illness as well. And, and the biggest thing you know about creating my business and even working with clients and building community is about giving people their dignity back.

And so many people that I work with in a chronic with in the chronic illness and disability space, they don’t wanna be on disability. They don’t wanna be on the NDIS, but unfortunately these are their options. So, you know, when I meet a lot with people who have a chronic illness who might’ve been high performing executives, they’ve worked in an office before they just want their dignity back.

They just wanna be able to contribute and get off that, or supplement their income. And that’s why I love to work with people with chronic illness ’cause we’re like. What are your hobbies? What do you love to do? How can we monetize that? And then give you back that empowerment so you can step back into your, your, you know, creativity or you know, generating wealth for yourself.

Like let’s look at what you’re good at and let’s help you.

[00:28:58] Kel: I love that. That’s so beautiful. It’s, it’s, it’s incredible the ecosystem that you’ve created, Chris. It’s, it’s really powerful and so heartwarming, I’m not gonna lie. It’s, it’s really lovely. Oh, thank you. It’s gorgeous to hear this and, for Christie and I first connected for everyone listening I’d reached out to explore chatting to people about their stories of using alternative therapies. And I know for you that medical cannabis has been a part of your journey. And I was wondering how that’s impacted your health, transformed your health and your wellbeing.

What been your experience with that?

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Now let’s get back to Chrissy’s insights. 

[00:30:26] Chrissy Symeonakis: Love it. So there was a lot of research in the US and in Europe that medical cannabis was great for people with MS to help with pain. I also have another nerve disorder called trigeminal neuralgia, which is like this weird, terrible face pain. And it’s, they actually call it the suicide disease because the pain and.

The intensity of this nervous, like this nerve cluster is just so, so bad. It hurts. So what much? So I was taking like really high doses of Lyrica other pain medications to try and keep it at bay. I was seeing an osteo cranial osteopath, so that was helping, but the pain was always still there.

So just again, being part of one of these Facebook communities I saw that there was some people getting some cBD oil and CBD and THC bombs from a place in Nimbin, which was like not the medical route, but really the only route at that time. So, you know, I set my little envelope in with my money and they sent it back to me.

So I was kind of like using black market products for a little while, and then when medicinal cannabis was actually available, I booked a proper consultation. Okay. Had the consult with the doctor went through what I was looking for, and so we tried a, what was it? So there was a balm, some drops and oil and some flowers.

And then, so I did that and the first strain was fine, but like, I’d have to take quite a bit of it. I don’t like to smoke it. It makes me cough. So my husband actually makes it into edibles for me. Yeah, he’s a chef, so he makes me edibles out of, they’re jelly, they’re jellies. And yeah, I’ve actually, in 18 months, I’ve been able to take myself off of, the nerve blocking pain medication and probably haven’t taken proper painkillers for this disorder in about 12 months. And I just manage with the CBD gummies and, you know, as you probably know, sometimes it’s more, I probably haven’t had them for about, I haven’t had to use the gummies in about four weeks.

So now I can just maintain and utilise that. It’s a strongest strain, like you have a consult. But yeah, I think it’s amazing. Like to be able to switch out a pharmaceutical medication for something that’s natural. Yeah, I highly, and I recommend it to lots of people, like obviously speak to your doctor.

I’m not a doctor and you know, check to see if there’s would be any interactions with the medication you’re on. Yeah. ’cause that’s super important. If you have underlying mental health issues, it might not be for you, but I was able to tick all the right boxes and yeah, it’s just great to know that I have it there as an option.

[00:33:10] Kel: Yeah. That’s fantastic. Yeah, I haven’t tried the gummies. I’ve, I’ve tried magnesium gummies and I’ve found that they’ve been a lot more effective than just like taking a capsule. Yeah. And it tastes nice too, so Yeah. Yeah, like apple flavors, so that’s nice. But yeah, a lot of people are using medical cannabis now for.

For chronic pain. I think it’s like over 80% of the prescriptions are for chronic pain. So he shows you, doesn’t it like one, like how big Farmers failed so many of the population because people alternative was working and, and just two, that it is effective and. And yeah, it’s really changing life, so, yeah, it’s good to hear.

[00:33:49] Chrissy Symeonakis: I really had to, I really had to argue with my neurologist when I, when it first come out.

[00:33:55] Kel: Okay. I

[00:33:55] Chrissy Symeonakis: was a avail. I was available here and I said, and my neuro is really good. Like I had five before I got to this guy, and he’s awesome. And he really does listen to me and my recommendations and requests and I just said, Hey, I wanna try medicinal cannabis.

And he is like, yeah, there’s still not the data. I said, no, there’s not the data here in Australia.

[00:34:15] Kel: Mm,

[00:34:15] Chrissy Symeonakis: there is. There is substantial data in the Europe and the US and I’m part of MS communities and it works. And he is like, well, I’m not comfortable in prescribing that to you. And I was like, that’s fine. So I just went to my gp, she gave me a referral to a dispensary and a doctor specific, and literally it was a 15 minute phone call. You know, went through my medical history, went through my, you know, medications and yeah, I had a script at the same day. So, yeah, sometimes if one doctor says no I feel like you’ve just gotta find the doctor that will give you what you need and find one who’s actually gonna listen to you.

[00:34:53] Kel: Mm. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I had Amanda Blessing on the podcast last year. She’s an executive coach for women in Melbourne. And she said like, you know, going into these kinds of scenarios, where is that power differential? You know, you’ve gotta try and.

Make sure that person’s an equal partner or that they wanna be an equal partner with you. And one thing she said as well, which I thought was powerful, was that not just like, what do you want, but what are you not willing to accept? Yeah. And I thought that’s a powerful thing too. And it ties in with what you were saying earlier around setting those boundaries and, and being clear about what you can and can’t do.

Like, you know, you can’t do, you know, meetings in summer because it’s too hot. Yep. Letting people know. And the difference I make when we’re all on the same page, you know.

[00:35:40] Chrissy Symeonakis: For sure, and I love that you talk about that power. Power as well in the equal playing field, because I refuse to call my doctor, professor or to call them like doctor this.

I call them by their first name and yeah. And they’re like, I’m like, Hey, Brenna. Hey everyone. And they’re like, my husband was weird about it. I go, no. How are they any better than me? I’m specialised in my area. They’re specialised in their area. I said, you know, to me, they’re just somebody that I’m outsourcing my health to, so I’m treating them as my equal.

Yeah. They’ve got an area of expertise somewhere else, but it doesn’t make them any better or more superior to me. Mm-hmm. So I’m very adamant to call them by first name. Yeah.

[00:36:20] Kel: Same thing. Yeah. My, my partner’s an RN and, and she, she’s been used to it now, but at first she got, she was a bit uncomfortable that I’d just come out and, and call the doctor, like SHA or whatever.

I love that. I just, it just feels like I need to have them there, like on my level. Yeah. I can’t be holding. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. I hear what you’re saying. Yeah.

[00:36:40] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah. Cool.

[00:36:41] Kel: Yeah. What’s, what’s one thing you wish that one, that people knew more about when it comes to living with a chronic pain condition that you don’t think he’s getting out there enough right now?

[00:36:51] Chrissy Symeonakis: Mm. I think that when you meet somebody with a chronic illness or chronic pain, don’t try and compare your own pain to theirs. Like I know a lot of people will be like wanting to empathise, but the worst thing that somebody could say to me is ‘oh yeah, I get headaches too’, or, ‘yeah, I have a sore back as well.’

Mm-hmm. Because that it’s almost like a little bit condescending, like it’s almost, it feels like a little bit dismissive and I. Get really shitty because you don’t understand my pain levels. You don’t understand that. While I might be here talking to you, I am probably gonna be in bed for the next two days and I’m gonna have to go for a massage now, and I’m gonna probably have to take pain meds like.

Just say, ‘wow, that’s really hard and that sounds terrible’. And, you know, say things that are a bit more supportive as opposed to being, making it about you to make you feel comfortable. Like, I feel like a lot of people do that. Or even ask your friends with, with chronic pain, or, ‘Hey, what does, what does a pain day look like to you?’

Like, what’s, what’s a 10 for you? What does a 10 feel like?

[00:38:00] Kel: Mm.

[00:38:01] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah, don’t, you don’t always have to have an answer. Like, I always you know, say like, don’t say you are sorry, or I’m, you know, I say to my husband all the time, he, I might be upset, I might be in pain or whatever, and he’s like. I’m really, that sucks.

Or I’m really sorry, but like, I want him to be mad with me sometimes

[00:38:21] Kel: and be like,

[00:38:21] Chrissy Symeonakis: yes. And yeah. And I’m like, I don’t need you to like, be supportive. I just need you to be like, that’s shit. And that’s unfair. And that’s, and you know, just for a few minutes, like, so yeah, say that to your friends and be like, you know what, it does suck that you have chronic pain.

And I can’t even imagine what that feels like for you. But you know what? I know how strong you are. And what can I do to help you? And I feel like those words are better than, oh, that must suck, or, yeah, I get a headache too. I get a headache too. Or I have a sore back. Like they like triggering words for me.

I.

[00:38:56] Kel: Yeah. It’s that like comparative suffering, isn’t it, of like, yeah. Oh my God. You know, I remember growing up, like I, I grew up on like a counselor state, but like mm-hmm. My Mum would say things like, you know, you don’t know what it’s like. Look at those children in Ethiopia, and it’s like, I can’t get those kids from Ethiopia outta my head because it’s.

Like, like, well, what can, what? That doesn’t change the fact that like, we’ve not got enough. Mm-hmm. It doesn’t, it doesn’t help someone if you start, and also it’s kind of like they’re taking the stage. Oh me.

Yeah. I kind of feel like if you are struggling and you just, you need empathy in that moment, you just need to feel seen and heard. It’s like you’re kind of in the water and another person is like in the boat, and then by saying, me too, they’re jumping out the boat. It’s like you were in the boat and you were in a position to support.

You didn’t need to jump out the boat and be swimming in the water with me now, because then it’s like, well, yeah, I understand what you’re saying. It’s, it’s hard. Yeah.

[00:39:56] Chrissy Symeonakis: That’s a great analogy. That’s a great way of explaining it as well.

[00:40:00] Kel: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, because it’s real and it’s different for everyone.

Like I’m a big believer in equity and you know, meeting people where they’re at, like treating everyone equal as a human being, but not saying like, oh, you know, this worked for Endo for this person. Like I remember someone texting me. Suggesting I get hysterectomy. This is someone who I’d never met in real life.

So Wow. That’s a massive overreach. For sure. But saying like, because I did and he’s my wife now, and it’s like, but it’s not like that. It’s not massive. Yeah. It’s not a one size fits all situation. Chronic pain is really complex and its different. Absolutely. And how it, our lives, we need more understanding and more.

Space just to express ourselves, like you say, just a few minutes to saying, you know what? Bloody pissed off about that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. I thought we could have a little chat, like finish on just chatting about like marketing and, and business. Yeah, sure. Business of creativity. ’cause many creatives do really struggle with, with self-promotion.

I know I’m, I’m one of them. I’m not really massively on social media. Like I quit Facebook and Instagram a few years ago ’cause I just found it quite overstimulating. So that was just like a, for me. But what advice would you give. To people, people in terms of marketing themselves authentically, because I can tell from chatting to you, Chrisy, like this is you, you know, this is who you’re, you know what I mean?

Yeah. So thank you. You know, there’s a lot of people wanna like project a certain thing and it might not be them at all, you know, and Yeah. I’m wondering advisor.

[00:41:41] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah, for sure. So I always tell everyone to build an email list. So platforms like Facebook and Instagram. The followers that U Mass or the network that U Mass actually belong to Facebook and Instagram.

So if they were to turn the platforms off tomorrow there’d be a lot of influencers or businesses that wouldn’t have a way to communicate with their customers. True. So I always recommend people, I always recommend people build an email list and you could just have like a contact form on your website or you can go to Google Sheets and make your own, or like a MailChimp, something simple.

And then what you can do is you can send out newsletters. On a semi-regular basis or whenever something’s coming up, and then those conversations are just like a letter to your friend. That’s how I tell people to write them. Write ’em as if you’re talking to one person. And over time that list will grow.

You know, I think I’ve got over 120,000 on my email list now, but like, if you look at my socials, I’ve probably got, you know, four or 5,000. But my database and my mailing list is where I generate most of my revenue, and then where I build community and conversation with people. Don’t be on every single platform.

If it doesn’t feel authentic to you, then you don’t have to be there. I hate TikTok. I’m not about Snapchat, so I really just focus on the platforms that I engage on. You know, LinkedIn is really an undervalued tool. And if you are wanting to network or wanting to do collaborations I definitely would recommend LinkedIn.

And I think as well, my other pro tip would be. Sit down and map out your content. What is the message you wanna send as opposed to doing like content on an ad hoc, on the fly basis because it can be much more strategic and structure. You know what your goals are, what do you wanna achieve and what’s the end game.

[00:43:31] Kel: Hmm. That’s brilliant. Yeah, that’s some really great tips there, Chrisy. Thanks. I’ve, I, I’ve written self down through our conversation for like two pages notes, so thank, thank you. Oh, yeah. I’m sure people get a lot from that because, you know, it does feel, or at least it seems to appear crowded. A lot of people talk about that, like, how can I stand out?

And it’s not always the case of like, well just shout louder. You know? It’s about, like you say, being strategic about the content and planning it out and the messaging. Writing to someone like they’re a friend and that personalisation. What makes brand stand out to you?

[00:44:08] Chrissy Symeonakis: Consistency. Yeah, we do a lot of work for clients on branding. And it’s really about, you know, going through and doing the hard stuff. Like we take people through this like process and we ask them questions like, you know, when you die, what do you wanna be remembered for? What’s your legacy?

What’s your ethos? Who are your ideal clients? What do they look like? So we flesh out all of this stuff and then, then comes the logo, then comes the content. But really it’s at the core, you know, and I ask people to ask the, ask themselves these questions like, who’s my ideal client? How much money do I wanna make?

What does this bring me? What do I want my business to afford me? Like, is it time, is it travel? Is it money to travel? Is it to pay off my home loan? Like, ask the deep questions and then everything else is secondary from that. But yeah, consistency, showing up and just building a community that loves you.

[00:45:12] Kel: That’s amazing. You built so much already, Chrissy. I’m wondering what’s next, what’s on the horizon for the business? I know.

[00:45:19] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yeah. I’m, I’m a mad, I’m a mad woman. Everyone always laughs at me. My staff laugh at me because I have you know, I do a lot of like self work, so I’m like, I’ll, you know, go somewhere and have a coffee or go for a walk and I come back inspired.

But. For me at the moment I have a project called Beyond the Mirror Ball, and this is the collection of stories of my career in the entertainment and club nightclub, festival sphere. I just saw so much crazy stuff, both my own stories and stories of my colleagues. So that’ll be a book which is being written at the moment.

It’ll be a podcast and then it will also be a club night, which I’ll tour with DJs and stuff ’cause that’s the land that I lived in for a while and still dabbling. So that’s my project at the moment, but then also building Creative Little Soul into more regional Australia. I come from the country in South Australia.

I have a team member there, so I just noticed that there are a lot of women specifically in business that are those solo entrepreneurs Mumtrepreneurs, or solo traders, and they’re just craving connection and community. So I’m setting up some grassroots networking events for people.

We’re not trying to sell ’em anything. It’s just come along, have an hour. I’ll buy you a cup and just connect, like I really am big on helping people form connections and then collaborations. Yeah. I’m a, I’m a connector, so my staff always laugh at me ’cause I’m like, oh yeah, you know, something will come up.

And I’m like, oh, I know a guy for that, or I know a guy for this. And that, you know, it will be in the chat and something will come up and they’re like, let me guess, you know a guy? I’m like, totally, I have five guys. So yeah, I’m very well, a networker and connector. So that’s probably what’s on my dance card for right now.

[00:47:10] Kel: That’s amazing. I’m so excited about this book, Chrissy. I’m, I’m, I’m already like picked it. I can’t, yeah. I can’t wait. Yeah. Awesome.

[00:47:20] Chrissy Symeonakis: Yes. I’ll send you a copy.

[00:47:21] Kel: Oh, wicked. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. That’s gonna be cool. The podcast. Listen, people who wanna connect with your work, and I know many that are listening to this,

[00:47:31] Chrissy Symeonakis: yeah, so they can just find us at creativelittlesoul.com.Au creative Little Soul on all the socials. Otherwise you can find me Chrissy Symeonakis I know it’s a big, long Greek name. But yeah, you can find me on my socials at chrissy dot sim for my personal one.

[00:47:47] Kel: Oh, that’s amazing. I’m so glad you said your last name, Chrissy, because I was like, I’m gonna butcher that.

So I’m glad you just said it, so thank you. It’s been such a pleasure chatting with you today and I’m so looking forward to sharing this conversation with the world. I think a lot of women will feel seen and heard from, from this and work so inspiring and all the best with everything in the future and I’m so glad we connected – thanks so much Chrissy.

[00:48:10] Chrissy Symeonakis: Thank you for having me, and thanks for facilitating these beautiful conversations with different women, you know? Oh, thank you. We, we have so many stories that need to be shared, and women, inspiring women is just such powerful thing. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you for hosting us and for having those discussions.

You’re doing a great job, so thank you.

[00:48:29] Kel: And that dear listeners, brings to close my interview with Chrissy Symeonakis what a powerful conversation you know, three reflections for me. The first one being just, wow, Chrissy’s pragmatism is so refreshing and her get. Shit done mantra coming from her Greek roots, an MS diagnosis really shows that even in our darkest moments, we’ve got choices.

And even on our worst days, we have the power to transform our breakdowns into breakthroughs by facing the reality of our situations and trusting that we’ve got the tools within us to overcome whatever life throws at us. I also love Chris’s take on self-advocacy, especially setting those non-negotiable boundaries,

which is often a really hard lesson for anyone dealing with chronic pain to prioritise their own health but resilient people like Chrissy know that only by taking care of themselves are they able to truly help and serve others?

I had love to hear from you.

What are your thoughts on today’s conversation and what boundaries are you setting to protect your time and energy?

Drop me a message or share your story in the comment section of the episode. I’d love to hear from you.

Until next time, I’m Kel Myers and this is Phoenix Sound.

Get full access to Phoenix Sound by Kel Myers at phoenixsound.substack.com/subscribe